Author Topic: "simple" carving  (Read 1166 times)

Offline Mauser06

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"simple" carving
« on: July 12, 2018, 04:08:36 PM »
Can we get pics of rifles, contemporary or original, with "simple" (for lack of a better term) carving? 

Namely cheek piece carvings...stuff that adds to the rifle, but isn't really complex or technical to execute. 

Examples I'd consider would be RCA 19. 


I know none of it is "simple". It still needs drawn and cut properly...

Just seems a lot of stuff that gets the attention is on the fancier side..complex designs and technical. 

If anyone remembers, I posted pics of my first attempt at carving and certainly bit off more than I can chew.  I worked and worked at trying to save it...and I feel like I did "ok" but couldn't live with it...i took the advice and took the rasp to it...

 I have mouldings cut on the rifle..forend, lock and butt mouldings as well as the cheek piece...so I feel like it'd look sorta silly with nothing behind the cheek piece. One of those things where you'd say "well he did all that...why isn't there a carving behind the cheek piece???

Just looking for ideas of stuff that is still of tasteful design but not overly difficult to draw and execute.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 04:15:31 PM »
Look at my website, it's full of guns with simple carving.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline KC

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 04:24:15 PM »
Mike's suggestion is a good one, I like browsing his web site. Another place you might look that runs the gamut from simple to complex is Jim Kibler's web site. I like looking at his carving, all of it is flawlessly executed. Under the Sample Of Work tab, look at Rifle #11. It's a relatively simple layout, the photos don't show behind the cheek piece real clearly but the rifle shows that simple and minimal carving can look great.
K.C.
K.C. Clem
Bradenton, FL

Offline John Archer

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 07:23:29 PM »
Check out Lowell Haarer's Virginia in latest issue of Muzzleloader. He has fore-end and lock moldings, wrist and tang carving and no carving behind the cheekpiece. It looks fantastic.

John
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Offline Scota4570

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 07:29:47 PM »
A super simple pattern done badly is still going to look crude.  The basic skills to do a bone simple carving are the same as something a little nicer.

Jim Kibler's carving practice kit has a nice pattern and a cast example of the same.  Being able to touch an example is important to me.  The pattern is pretty simple and doable.  I bought a maple board at the home  center and carved the pattern several times.  Once I was confident I did it on a rifle. 


Offline rich pierce

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 08:03:34 PM »
Look at our museum here.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Mauser06

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 09:15:20 PM »
Thanx all! 

Lots of good examples to look at. 


I fully understand that even a simple design needs executed properly. But, something more simple and less technical should be easier to execute properly opposed to a complex designs with lots going on and lots to go wrong. 


I thought about leaving it blank and still may....I just think it would look better with something there.

It'll be my personal turkey gun so if it's a bit crude, I can live with it. I'm learning as I go and can't learn to carve a rifle if I chicken out and skip it. My first attempt was just more complex than I was ready for.  But, I learned a lot and feel like I can do better if I start with something a little less complicated.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 09:31:19 PM »
Fowling pieces usually lack cheek pieces and associated carving; may often have some carving around the tang and some lock panel moldings.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Martin S.

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2018, 10:21:51 PM »
Check out Lowell Haarer's Virginia in latest issue of Muzzleloader. He has fore-end and lock moldings, wrist and tang carving and no carving behind the cheekpiece. It looks fantastic.

John

Which issue?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2018, 12:24:35 AM »
Check out Lowell Haarer's Virginia in latest issue of Muzzleloader. He has fore-end and lock moldings, wrist and tang carving and no carving behind the cheekpiece. It looks fantastic.

John

Which issue?
The current one what ever that is.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline John Archer

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2018, 02:21:40 AM »
July/August 2018
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Offline Martin S.

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2018, 02:52:50 AM »
Thanks, John, mine has not arrived yet.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2018, 03:20:05 AM »
Another consideration might be "The Book of Lancaster Carving by Suzie Bicio if you havent already picked one.

Offline Mauser06

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2018, 03:42:42 AM »
Thanx smylee..I do have it.   There's a couple in there I'm going to practice on.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2018, 03:56:43 PM »
Thanx smylee..I do have it.   There's a couple in there I'm going to practice on.
You really have to practice (if you're going to practice) on a curved surface that simulates the curvature of a buttstock. Doing this on a flat surface isn't going to work. you're going to need some hard wood as well.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Scota4570

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2018, 07:21:48 PM »
Another consideration might be "The Book of Lancaster Carving by Suzie Bicio if you havent already picked one.

How do you get her books? 

http://www.historicalarmsmaker.com/publications.html  is a dead link.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 07:32:58 PM »
Scota4570, I think Ryan at Muzzle Loader Builders Supply might have them for sale, if not he might be able to give you some contact info.

Offline TommyG

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2018, 11:04:38 PM »
You might want to look at RCA #17, this gun is also in the Moravian gunmaking Vol.1, Pg.102, attributed to Willaim Antes.  Very nice and somewhat plain incised carving behind the cheek with a bit of modeling.  A simple Fleur-de-lis at the tang with nice beavertails & front lock mouldings.  Of course this is considered an early Moravian gun so I don't know how it would fit your build, but IMO is an example of somewhat simpler design but will still require skill to pull it off. 

Offline Mauser06

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2018, 08:40:39 AM »
My gun was a Beck precarve....but, unless I don't finish it for a very long time, I don't see myself carving in the style of Beck anytime soon. 

I'm not so concerned about it. It's my first longrifle build.  Started as a nicely done precarve.  I learned a lot from the build and it'll be my turkey gun (colerain turkey barrel).  I'm going to do what I can do well and finish it.   Working on an aged finish too...I like them...and don't want a bright shiny gun in the turkey woods.  The metal is already where I want it. 


I really need to find a carving class and get to it.  I've never been artistic so there's a definite struggle there.  I enjoy building though and would like to learn to carve.  I own several books and videos. I've watched a lot and read a lot online. I think I just need hands on kinda learning. 





That's what I took the rasp to.....it may have been saveable by a skilled Carver...but, I gave it way too much time and could just never get it to look "right".    The wood in that particular area isn't exactly the easiest either. It was on the softer side and made it more difficult for me.

I did learn a lot by attempting that though. 

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2018, 01:09:49 PM »
Really soft wood is difficult to carve, always looks like crapola. Study original designs.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2018, 05:23:10 PM »
Very sharp tools are a must for clean carving. And yes, hard wood makes carving a joy.

If you get to Dixon's, in just a few weeks, David Price will be giving a demo on SHARPENING carving tools, and another seminar on CARVING YOUR LONGRIFLE.

Dixon Seminar schedule: http://www.dixonmuzzleloading.com/complete-seminar-schedule/
Tom Curran's web site : http://tcurran.com/

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: "simple" carving
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2018, 05:58:13 PM »
Mauser06 you say you've never been artistic, but you can still likely master some nice carving designs.

I used to really struggle to get a design drawn that was satisfactory.  I'd attempt it multiple times and sometimes settle for something I knew was not quite right but I was afraid my next attempt might be worse.
My point is that after much repetition and practice drawing I can now confidently, and without too much trial and error, get a design that I am truly satisfied with.

Draw yourself a full scale butt stock profile including the position of the cheek piece and make some copies.  Then take a simple design such as the Edward Marshall butt stock and practice drawing it repeatedly.  Before long you'll begin to see the problem areas as you go, and you'll see just what needs to be done to correct them.

Always remember this carving is trying to imitate the natural curvature of leaves hanging from a plant.

Good luck,
Jeff
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