J*MC & Company smooth rifle

[cshirsch]

I have this smooth-rifle that is marked on the barrel, P*M*C & (Co.). Unfortunately someone before me overcleaned the wood and the brass.  Has anyone figured out what these initials represent?  It's seems to be an early 1800s gun but I have not been able to find out what company this is.  Anyone???

[Tanselman]

I think the initials are probably  "J M C."  Nice looking gun with striking color in the flame maple. Shelby Gallien

[Eric Krewson]

Could that striping be faux, the blobs at the comb look unnatural.

[cshirsch]

Could that striping be faux, the blobs at the comb look unnatural.

It's real, someone did a very poor job of cleaning the wood. Way too much.  I will eventually help it out.

[greybeard]

To Me it is a right PERT piece.   Makes me break that Thou Shalt Not  Covet thingy
    Bob Reader 

[Avlrc]

J M C & co,  probably J M Cooper & company , Pittsburgh PA

James Mercer Cooper 1809 -1872

[cshirsch]

J M C & co,  probably J M Cooper & company , Pittsburgh PA

James Mercer Cooper 1809 -1872

I am pretty sure it is a P, not a J.  Thanks.

[Avlrc]

You are welcome.  But a "P" is usually  done in two lines something like the scribble I did  below.  A "J" is done in one continuous line like the first letter on your rifle. I  wonder if Cooper made rifles or just stamped his name on them?    I have seen some revolvers that where stamped by him, or his company.  They were  later than your rifle.  Maybe some Western Pennsylavnia Rifle collector on here could add info on him. I might be wrong, won't be the first time.   Nice rifle & thanks for posting.

[cshirsch]

You are welcome.  But a "P" is usually  done in two lines something like the scribble I did  below.  A "J" is done in one continuous line like the first letter on your rifle. I  wonder if Cooper made rifles or just stamped his name on them?    I have seen some revolvers that where stamped by him, or his company.  They were  later than your rifle.  Maybe some Western Pennsylavnia Rifle collector on here could add info on him. I might be wrong, won't be the first time.   Nice rifle & thanks for posting.

Could be.

[cshirsch]

I don't think this made by Cooper.  There is not indication, from my studies, that he actually built rifles.  The first letter may very well be a J.

[120RIR]

As someone with no small amount of experience in engraving in the 18th and 19th century style - that is 100% a "J".  Neat rifle even if it was overcleaned - it's got character.

[cshirsch]

Thanks!

As someone with no small amount of experience in engraving in the 18th and 19th century style - that is 100% a "J".  Neat rifle even if it was overcleaned - it's got character.

[Longknife]

 Caswell, J M, Lansingburgh NY, There is some disagreement over which of the Caswells used the J M signature, James or John. Both were gunsmiths. Most authorities use John as the most as the most likely as he produced large numbers of guns according to the 1850 census.

 Caswell, James, Lansingburgh NY

 Caswell John M. Lansingburgh NY 1812-1850. Model 1808 contract muskets marked JMC

[cshirsch]

It's possible it was made by John M. Caswell.  This gun does not resemble the later work of the Caswells, 

Caswell, J M, Lansingburgh NY, There is some disagreement over which of the Caswells used the J M signature, James or John. Both were gunsmiths. Most authorities use John as the most as the most likely as he produced large numbers of guns according to the 1850 census.

 Caswell, James, Lansingburgh NY

 Caswell John M. Lansingburgh NY 1812-1850. Model 1808 contract muskets marked JMC

[Hungry Horse]

Also John Caswell made many of his own locks during his early years, and marked them with a stamp. This being a converted flintlock, it would be likely his own lock, and marked as such.

  Hungry Horse

[cshirsch]

OK, I examined the lock again and I forgot that it is marked.  I am pretty sure it reads DELAVAN.  There were Delavans in New York City and Pittsburgh.  I once owned a militia musket with a Delavan lock.

[cshirsch]

I was flipping through one of my longrifle books and ran across another rifle by this same maker.  Behold, The Longrifle listed it as HMC & Company but I doubt that the first letter is an H.  Unfortunately they did not include a photo of the signature.  It is good to see another by the maker, though.  Same patchbox, cheek piece and cheek piece inlay.  The checkered wrist is a New York trait.  Still not sure until I find definite proof.  Still looking. 

[cshirsch]

I now have seen two other rifles that are described as being signed, HMC & Co.  I still have not seen the actual signature on either.  This is getting rather confusing.  I will keep looking for more information.