Author Topic: Tried & True Varnish OIl  (Read 4525 times)

Offline Mr. Bubbles

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Tried & True Varnish OIl
« on: August 17, 2018, 10:55:48 PM »
I've been using this stuff, just as the directions say---wipe on thinly, wait an hour, and then wipe it all off until it feels dry.  Wait a day, and then buff with a soft cloth.  Except, the "wait a day" part seems to be more like a week to 10 days between coats.  Am I doing it wrong?  Or, is it just because there is so much linseed oil in the varnish it just takes that long. We also have pretty high humidity this summer too.

I can live with it, (because I left myself other things to do on the build) but it will probably mean the time to build up a decent amount of finish will be about 3-4 months.  Have others experienced similar things with this finish?

Offline FlintFan

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2018, 11:31:18 PM »
I have not used their Varnish Oil, but I have used their Danish oil.

When they say apply thinly, think in the terms of a few drops for a butt stock sized portion of a the stock, rubbed out with your palm. If you need a few more drops go ahead and add more.  After a time or two you will get a feel of how much you have to apply to get the bare minimum amount needed per application, which is what you want to shoot for.

Less is better


Offline Scota4570

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 12:47:40 AM »
Seems too long to me. 

My last stock was finished with  spar varnish thinned with mineral spirits about 50:50.  I added a dollop of japan dryer.  I wiped in on very thin.  The coats dried overnight.  I like to mess with this type of thing. 

IF you are more results oriented just buy some proven finish from an outfit that caters to long rifle builders.  Permalyn is good stuff, for instance.

"Leave the gun out in the sun if you can between coats."  I have had problems with that plan.  The wood gets hot and the air is pushed out the pores.  That blows bubbles in the finish. 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 01:53:03 AM by Scota4570 »

Offline smart dog

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2018, 12:49:56 AM »
Hi,
It is probably the high humidity.  Leave the gun out in the sun if you can between coats.

dave
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2018, 01:00:48 AM »
If it has linseed oil in it it will need sunlight to make it dry. The first gun I did with BLO took forever to dry, then I discovered it needs sunlight.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2018, 01:15:05 AM »
I am using it, and you have to put it on very thin.    By very thin, they mean as thin as you can possibly get it.   Your surface has to be very well prepared to do this.   I spread it on with my finger tips a drop at a time.   Then I wipe off the excess.  Given that it is mostly linseed oil,  it does need UV to cure.   You need to put the stock, or what ever you are finishing, out in the sun.   It should dry overnight if you do those things.   If it is not dry, do not put any more finish on until the last coat is dry.   I didn't do that to my walking stick and it took a week or two to fully cure.    I had to keep rubbing it out until I had a hard finish.
 

Offline Mr. Bubbles

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2018, 01:46:19 AM »
I'm doing exactly that, though I do have to be a little judicious, (to keep the dogs from using it as their new fire hydrant) and take it in at night.  It gets just a little bit stiffer every day.  I'm not on any kind of schedule for completion.  Some time between now and when I check in to the wooden Waldorf is fine by me, and hopefully that's still some years off.

Offline dogcatcher

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2018, 02:00:53 AM »
Is this a new can, have you used it before?

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2018, 04:54:17 AM »
As others have already said, Tried and True products, all of them, should be used exceptionally sparingly.

One drop or two drops at a time, rubbed over a large area, is not an exaggeration.

You can read more about it on woodworking forums such as...

sawmillcreek.org
woodcentral.com
woodnet.net

Search Tried and True on any of those sites and you will find several posts, if not more.

A little goes a long way.

I know one guy that adds "Japan drier" to T&T, to make it dry faster.  Which is strange, since most people use it because it does not have harsh chemicals in it, so it is considered safe to rub in with your bare hands.

Yes, it takes a long time to dry, but it does a nice job popping the curl on curly cherry, and probably curly maple as well.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 07:51:32 AM by Martin S. »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2018, 06:56:50 AM »
There is so much ash falling from forest fires here that I cannot leave anything outside these days.  So I finish in the shop with Circa 1850 Tung Oil Finish.  I have a new can of Tried and True Oil Varnish and have not used it yet.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2018, 12:42:42 PM »
I’ve had exactly the same experience with Tried and True, especially in summer with high humidity.  Even exposing it to UV does very little to speed the process, and, it was applied very sparingly.  In the winter, with low humidity, it worked much faster.  I like the finish, once it eventually sets, but it does take some time.


          Ed
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Offline PPatch

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2018, 05:26:03 PM »
Sounds as if humidity is prolonging your drying time, this is normal. With wipe on type finishing oils a little goes a long way after the initial coating. For that first coat I slather it on and keep moving it around over the stock continuously and after about 10-15 minutes wipe the excess off with shop towels. I then give it time to cure completely. If you apply more oil before that first coat (or any coat) is completely dry you will end up with a milky looking gummy mess, so allow however much time it takes.

Once you are satisfied that a previous coat is dry then use your finger(s) to apply the oil a drop at a time and cover a few square inches at a time until the stock is fully covered. Put the small amount of oil on and rub it around until you feel it tac up, smooth it as best you can with the finger, then move to another areas and repeat. After a few finger coats, and again, when the stock is dry, you can very lightly sand (400 grit) or go over the stock with 0000 steel wool (vacuum the stock afterwards) to level the finish before adding another coat. Repeat Repeat Repeat... The usual last step is to level the finish all over using a cotton dauber charged with mineral oil and fine rottenstone using almost no direct pressure and rubbing in circles. The finish should then have a high satin sheen. Wax and call it finished.

Oil finishes are time consuming but the result is beautiful.

dave
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2018, 05:59:40 PM »
Two questions, this sounds like a lot of time/work to get a good finish with this product. Is it worth the extra time/labor when comparing it to Chambers Oil Finish which I now use?

If so could I use an old set of sun lamps that I have in place of natural sun? (would cut my shop dehumidifier down real low and hang stock in front of the sun lamps)

Dennis
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2018, 06:02:03 PM »
Oh one more question what type of sheen does this stuff produce? If its like the old Tru-Oil I don't think I would be happy with it unless it can be rubbed down to a low gloss satin finish.
Dennis
**uh oh, should have read PPatch's post before I asked this question. He answered my question.

Quote
The usual last step is to level the finish all over using a cotton dauber charged with mineral oil and fine rottenstone using almost no direct pressure and rubbing in circles. The finish should then have a high satin sheen. Wax and call it finished.

Oil finishes are time consuming but the result is beautiful.

dave
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 06:10:23 PM by Dennis Glazener »
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline PPatch

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2018, 08:37:19 PM »
Two questions, this sounds like a lot of time/work to get a good finish with this product. Is it worth the extra time/labor when comparing it to Chambers Oil Finish which I now use?

If so could I use an old set of sun lamps that I have in place of natural sun? (would cut my shop dehumidifier down real low and hang stock in front of the sun lamps)

Dennis

Dennis; I was describing wipe on oil finishes in general, not Tried and true OI specifically. I don't know what that specific wipe on finishes out as, gloss, semi-gloss?

UV light is the key so your sun lamps provide just that so ought to work, the low humidity conditions will aid in shortening the cure time also.  I have been doing some stain testing lately and with any LMF stain containing red the sun will bleach it out to a brown pretty quickly, those red tinted stains are just not stable in sunlight. Reds in general are like that in any application though because the cadmium pigment is vulnerable to losing its reddish hue in UV light. That last, just fyi.

I like the Chambers oil, it gives me what I want in an oil finish. Oil finishing is a process and it takes time. These days I have two go-to finishes, Chambers oil or pure beeswax.

dave
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 02:54:19 AM by PPatch »
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Offline smart dog

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2018, 03:46:57 AM »
Hi Dennis,
Perhaps it might help to know that Ken Gahagan uses Tried and True oil varnish.  If you like his finishes you will like T&T.

dave
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2018, 10:31:40 PM »
Hi Dennis,
Perhaps it might help to know that Ken Gahagan uses Tried and True oil varnish.  If you like his finishes you will like T&T.

dave

Yes I like Ken's finishes, guess I will have to give it a try.
Dennis

"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2018, 11:58:30 PM »
As a cabinet maker I use it a lot. Here is what I do. Open can an pour off about 5 oz I pour into a small mason jar. Ad a bottle of tru oil to the can stir use as thin a coat as you can read a few drops and hand rub. As you use the product add a few oz back from the mason jar to the can. Good stuff but takes patience.   

Offline Blacksmoke

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2018, 12:44:49 AM »
I have never tried T&T products but what ever concoction I am using I always add a little, or sometimes 50/50 proportions of "Japan dryers" to the mix and it cuts down the drying time a lot!  Just saying;  Hugh Toenjes
H.T.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2018, 06:47:03 PM »
I use this stuff pretty often.  I don't know what I can really add to the discussion.  I agree, extremely thin coats as thin as you can possibly apply and then good strong sunlight seems to be the key.  I am pretty happy with the final finish when it's applied this way.

Jim

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2018, 09:00:16 PM »
Jim, did you use the T&T Varnish oil or the linseed oil?

Just wondering for that kit I bought.

Offline Mr. Bubbles

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2018, 12:05:08 AM »
Time is just one of the things you have to figure on when using it I guess.  4-5-6 coats is going to take 2-4 months.  The final result is good, but it can't be rushed. 

What about buffing or leveling it in between coats?  Have you used any electric buffing wheels for this, like some of those that are mounted on a drill?  How about rotten stone and rubbing it with a carrying oil, like say boiled linseed oil for evening between coats?  I care most about the best finish I can get, not necessarily how long it takes to get it.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2018, 12:22:43 AM »
Time is just one of the things you have to figure on when using it I guess.  4-5-6 coats is going to take 2-4 months.  The final result is good, but it can't be rushed. 

What about buffing or leveling it in between coats?  Have you used any electric buffing wheels for this, like some of those that are mounted on a drill?  How about rotten stone and rubbing it with a carrying oil, like say boiled linseed oil for evening between coats?  I care most about the best finish I can get, not necessarily how long it takes to get it.

I use the varnish oil.  If it took 2-4 weeks for a finish I wouldn’t use it let alone 2-4 months!

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2018, 02:26:26 AM »
I use T&T varnish oil all the time, both for it's non toxic make up as well as for the finish results. I like it.  Thin thin coats as everyone suggests are the key, and sun light. Just exposure to the light coming in the shop window seems to work fine for me.  I think the longest it ever took me to finish a gun with it was 2 weeks and that was in the winter.

Offline Mauser06

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Re: Tried & True Varnish OIl
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2018, 04:07:07 AM »
What the others have described is exactly how I am currently using Chamber's oil.  After the first coat I let it dry 2 days and carfeully removed the majority of the finish back down to the wood. Then every day, I have put a light coat on...think like using furniture polish. Just enough to make the wood barely look wet.  Spread it as far as it'll go.


My basement is running around 50% humidity (according to the dehumidifier). I opened an AC vent and have the dehumidifier running and the fan blowing on the stock.  24hrs I repeat.   4 coats and 5 days and it's "done".  I'm going to add 2 more coats and then rub it out with rottenstone. 

My coats are so thin I don't level between them unless I see stuff stuck in the finish or obvious imperfections.  After my final rub with rottenstone, I will evaluate it...the coats build but not heavily. I don't see the need to rub it out between every coat.