Author Topic: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker  (Read 4622 times)

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« on: August 19, 2018, 10:14:44 PM »
Any ideas on who may have made this Longrifle?  Barrel is 44 1/2 inches long, .36 caliber, walnut stock.































































« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 06:20:19 AM by Sequatchie Rifle »
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 06:02:53 PM »
 ??? ???... S.R., ... Are you thinking one of the Beardens,...?

Offline Bart

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 06:20:42 PM »
That's one nice rifle!!

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 06:36:08 PM »
The Griffith lock was marketed by Griffith who was a partner of Christian Seibert in the 60's in Cinncinnatti.
Mark
Mark

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 07:24:11 PM »
That lock is just like what was in the beater antique rifle I picked up about a month ago. Helps me know how to engrave it.
Andover, Vermont

Offline bgf

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 10:30:27 PM »
Condition of tang plus stock shaping at muzzle makes me think it was cut back a bit at breech at some point (due to erosion) and the pewter nosecap poured then?  Could easily have been 46+", originally.

The location of the first barrel pin appears to be past the entry pipe?  Generally that is earlier trait than I would expect with that style of trigger guard, so along with the tang shape it may be an important clue to origin.  Or is that pin originally the second pin, in which case are there any filled holes on forearm?

Overall, beautiful rifle that appears to be in good shape!


Offline hanshi

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 11:01:34 PM »
Nice old rifle.
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Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 02:42:12 PM »
The 2nd photo shows the unique shaping of the stock.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Online Hlbly

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 09:16:19 PM »
Looks Kentucky made to me. Does not look cut back, does not look altered in any way.

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2018, 06:27:48 AM »
 ;) ;)... I do know of an Elbert Bible , Tennessee Rifle that has that same raised area between lock molding and butt-plate,....

Offline Robby

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2018, 03:39:59 PM »
Sequatchie, is the front sight inlet and soldered? Very nice rifle!!!!
Robby
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Offline wormey

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2018, 06:24:51 PM »
I agree with HLBLY, looks like its a Kentucky made rifle to me.  Owned one at one time that looks very much like this rifle in style, but don`t have it to compare now.  The barrel tang is pure North Carolina, but I don`t think it was made there.  Wormey

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2018, 07:09:46 PM »
The front sight is not soldered. Thanks for the comments- keep them coming!
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2018, 11:55:20 PM »
The stock architecture is very similar to Kentucky-made rifles, and the guard/butt plate/triggers are all a style that was sold in Louisville during the percussion era 1840-1860. Note the "square shoulder" on the rear spur of the guard, that runs straight up to the rear extension rather than curving up to meet it...and also the front trigger with the little "moon" curve behind it. Butt architecture is also strongly Kentucky in outline. But the cast nose cap is something I have not seen on northern Kentucky guns. Without the odd pewter nose cap, I'd think it was a Kentucky gun, but with the nose cap it becomes questionable. Most Kentucky guns also have slightly tighter side facings, particularly around the lock plate, without as much wood left in front of the lock's nose, and tail [although this one has a flat tail making side facing look longer to rear]. Some Ohio guns tended toward the longer side facings, more so than in Kentucky. So perhaps it's a southern Ohio gun, probably made near the Ohio River as the lock suggests, and close enough to Kentucky to be influenced by that State's gunmaking styles. Shelby Gallien

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2018, 03:17:47 AM »
Thanks for the input Shelby! It came from Jack Buckner’s collection.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline Buck

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2018, 04:16:16 PM »
Bro Bill,

I had forgotten about this one, some of those I should have kept!

Bro Buck

Offline Robby

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2018, 04:16:45 PM »
The front sight is not soldered. Thanks for the comments- keep them coming!

I don't see any trace of a dovetail or staking marks. How is it held in?
Robby
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Online Hlbly

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2018, 08:15:11 PM »
If you will take a close look at the 19th picture you can clearly see the end of a brass sight base dovetailed into the barrel.

Offline Robby

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2018, 01:28:04 AM »
Well, I blew it up and I cannot 'clearly' see it, if I allow my desire to see it take over, then, okay, maybe.
Robin
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2018, 01:07:42 PM »
Sorry for the absence- I like to think the pattern on the pewter nosecap represents Alabama or maybe even Scotland, but most likeeiit is just a design someone preferred. Thanks to everybody who commented.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2018, 03:58:41 PM »
If you will take a close look at the 19th picture you can clearly see the end of a brass sight base dovetailed into the barrel.

Man, my eyes must be failing me.  I sure don't see anything that looks like a brass sight base or a dovetail for that front sight.  I know SR said it wasn't soldered, but in picture 20, enlarged, it sure looks like a blob of something on the top and rear sides of the sight blade, with the thinner, stepped front of the blade peeking out.

-Ron
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2018, 06:17:47 PM »
  Ron I don't see it either ! My guess is it's pinned in place. But what do I know...!  Oldtravler

Treebeard

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2018, 07:15:28 PM »
On my iPad I can see the faint lines of a dovetail. The gunsmith who did that was a master with a file!

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2018, 12:39:08 AM »
By coincidence, a virtually identical rifle by the same maker surfaced recently. The only significant differences are: 1) fine curly maple stock, and 2) a more elaborate cast pewter nose cap. It has all the same features, including the soft ridge running down the center line of the butt stock on either side, same guard and triggers, (I think the same lock), same very high "buckhorn" rear sight, and same inset front sight. I'll see if the owner might allow a couple pictures of it to be posted. And of course, it is also unsigned. Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 06:20:52 AM by Tanselman »

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Southern Rifle Unknown Maker
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2018, 05:14:57 PM »
Very interesting. I look forward to seeing photos and hearing details. Thanks
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320