Author Topic: Rifleman's Horn  (Read 4523 times)

Offline j. pease

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2018, 03:16:00 AM »
The original horn with strap that I have seen was in about mint condition. It came out of an old collection and originally obtained from Bannermans. The horn and strap were not attached to pouch. The strap was flat around the extended plug, it was sewen in place. I am not sure I explained this very well

Offline 45-110

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2018, 03:25:46 PM »
Mark can you post a picture of your pouch or the original that is correct for the separate horn sling? From what I am gathering the pouches most referenced have the integral "powder device strap" apparently for the later peace flask. If there was an early pouch design for the M1803 rifle using a separate horn strap, I would really like to see it.
thanks kw

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2018, 10:35:47 PM »
Unfortunately, I don't have the Rifleman's pouch or photos of it.   My client is making the pouch.    I was told to allow for straps that are 3/4".   

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2018, 02:59:19 PM »

Offline 45-110

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2018, 03:20:03 PM »
The horn ref. pictures presented are awesome. Should really help anyone re-creating one. Now what begs to be asked.....where is a picture of the correct bag/pouch for the m1803 m1814/17 etc? Does an original exist in some museum?  Wonder if Harpers Ferry or Allegheny arsenal made them?
kw

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2018, 04:45:47 PM »
 Another FWIW. Searching auction sites may turn up something. This is the Third or Fourth that I have seen that has belt loops on the back. I realize these are not the right date but may give some idea of what was used by the military.

   Tim

    https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/early-nineteenth-century-cartridge-box-22836

 A second:

    https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/early-american-cartridge-box-3266630
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 04:49:51 PM by Tim Crosby »

Offline TN Longhunter

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2018, 05:03:36 PM »
With the presented reference material, I am all amped up to recreate one. Too bad the brass casting set at TOW is out of stock, the parts would be a grate start. I have never tried to thread wood, would  a normal metal die and tap work or are they different so as to get non fuzzy or torn threads?
best kw

There are taps and dies made for wood that will do a much better job then trying to use those for metal.  Woodcraft, Amazon and others should carry them. Much larger dies with the cutting edge mounted in a wooden holder.
Don Spires
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Offline 45-110

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2018, 06:54:26 PM »
T. Crosby
The pouches on Cowans have drilled blocks, indicative of paper cartridges for muskets. I don't know how well a pre patched ball works wrapped in paper, I guess its doable though. Perhaps the cloth patch was gathered up and tied off on ball top?
best kw

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2018, 08:55:33 PM »
T. Crosby
The pouches on Cowans have drilled blocks, indicative of paper cartridges for muskets. I don't know how well a pre patched ball works wrapped in paper, I guess its doable though. Perhaps the cloth patch was gathered up and tied off on ball top?
best kw

  A patch was not used with the paper loads used with military muskets. Paper cartridge torn, powder poured down barrel, paper on top then ball or no paper. My thoughts were; if the ball came with a premeasured load wrapped in paper what is a horn needed for, priming or would a bit of the main charge be saved to prime OR did they self prime?
 Then again were are talking the model 1803-19, .54cal and it was rifled with a patch box to carry precut patches. So wooden blocks would not be needed. I wonder what WAS in the bag/box. Balls/screw/wiper/tow/flints/pick/flint tool?????
 Should probably started a separate thread on this but we've come this far.

  Tim

  From:

 Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States by Friedrich Wilhelm von
  Steuben


 VI. Handle- Cartridge! One motion.

Bring your right hand short round to your pouch, flapping it hard, seize the cartridge, and bring it with a quick motion to your mouth, bite the top off down to the powder, covering it instantly with your thumb, and bring the hand as low as the chin, with the elbow down.


 VII. Prime! One motion.

Shake the powder into the pan, and covering the cartridge again, place the three last fingers behind the hammer, with the elbow up.


 VIII. Shut- Pan! Two motions

1st. Shut your pan briskly, bringing down the elbow to the butt of the firelock, holding the cartridge fast in your hand.

2d. Turn the piece nimbly round before you to the loading position, with the lock to the front, and the muzzle at the height of the chin, bringing the right hand up under the muzzle; both feet being kept fast in this motion.


 IX. Charge with Cartridge! Two motions.

1st. Turn up your hand and put the cartridge into the muzzle, shaking the powder into the barrel.

2d. Turning the stock a little towards you, place your right hand closed, with a quick and strong motion, upon the butt of the rammer, the thumb upwards, and the elbow down.


 X. Draw- Rammer! Two motions.

1st. Draw your rammer with a quick motion half-out, seizing it instantly at the muzzle back-handed.

2d. Draw it quite out, turn it, and enter it into the muzzle.


 XI. Ram down- Cartridge! One motion

Ram the cartridge well down the barrel, and instantly recovering and seizing the rammer back-handed by the middle, draw it quite out, turn it, and enter it as far as the lower pipe, placing at the same time the edge of the hand on the butt-end of the rammer, with the fingers extended
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 09:25:38 PM by Tim Crosby »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2018, 11:28:46 PM »
Powder horn is powder source for making more paper cartridges.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Rifleman's Horn
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2018, 12:47:53 AM »
Powder horn is powder source for making more paper cartridges.

 Did they make their own paper cartridges? I know in the CW they were issued Sixty at a time.

    Tim