Author Topic: Southern Belle rifle  (Read 4156 times)

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Southern Belle rifle
« on: October 25, 2018, 01:37:05 AM »
 Do any of you have pictures of Wiley Higgins “Southern Belle” rifle. I have only seen it in a group shot with some of his other rifles. Would love to see more.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1708
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 06:25:13 PM »
 ;) ;)... Jerry Noble has a pretty clear B&W photo of the patchbox  in his "Notes on Southern LongRifles Vol. II"... also has a full  length view,... I can share a photo if you don't have this book,... also several other Wiley Higgins rifles in this volume,... Regards, Cades Cove Fiddler ....

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 07:05:01 PM »
The patchbox ( although it isn’t really a patchbox, just an elaborate inlay) is about all you ever see in pictures of this gun. I’m sure a close examination of this gun would reveal so much more. It’s interesting that the gamecock rifle get so much coverage, and this rifle gets so little.
 Any pictures you can post would be very welcome.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1708
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 09:32:35 PM »
.... a couple poor photos I took from Jerry Noble's book,.... perhaps Wayne Elliott will join in this topic,... he is our resident Georgia rifle authority and can provide great info on these rifles,.....






printable baby boy names

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3755
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 10:37:28 PM »
Surprised they didn’t have this one at the KRA exhibit this year. It would’ve been nice to see
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2018, 12:38:20 AM »
I heard it’s in the Cody museum in Wyoming, but couldn’t get any more information than that.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13250
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2018, 01:00:30 AM »
The patchbox ( although it isn’t really a patchbox, just an elaborate inlay) is about all you ever see in pictures of this gun. I’m sure a close examination of this gun would reveal so much more. It’s interesting that the gamecock rifle get so much coverage, and this rifle gets so little.
 Any pictures you can post would be very welcome.

  Hungry Horse
I'd rather have a gamecock on my rifle than a house wife...…. ;)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Buffaload

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2018, 02:05:07 AM »
I was in West Yellowstone last week and called Cody to get museum hours.  I learned they were completely overhauling the firearms exhibit and it would be ready some time next year. If you guys are headed that way next year I would call them for the status of the exhibit. 
Ed

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1708
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 02:15:58 AM »
 :D ;D ???.... Mike,..... most likely NOT a housewife,.... perhaps his favorite sporting lady  from down at Miss Kitty's Relaxation Parlour,... !!!.... we may never know,... "Oh Well,.....",.... regards,... CCF,... 

Offline Howard

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 03:54:48 AM »
It was at Cody close to the Hawken rifles four years ago.

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13250
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 04:16:17 PM »
:D ;D ???.... Mike,..... most likely NOT a housewife,.... perhaps his favorite sporting lady  from down at Miss Kitty's Relaxation Parlour,... !!!.... we may never know,... "Oh Well,.....",.... regards,... CCF,...
You'll have to excuse me, I'm an old chicken guy. ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline RobertS

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2018, 06:52:09 PM »
Hope this works:






At least this is one Belle who might bark loudly but won't give you any back talk!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 06:56:04 PM by RobertS »

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2018, 07:44:42 PM »
Thanks for these pictures. This is pretty much proof that Mr. Higgins wasn’t a gunsmith who’s  style was stuck in a rut. Missing is his signature silver lock surrounds, and a flintlock halfstock is nontypical as well. Then there is the lock with its roller frizzen, and sliding safety, all pretty innovative. And that giant multi metal, heavily engraved, inlay. Why it wasn’t a patchbox only Wiley Higgins could tell. Would love to see the other side.

  Hungry Horse

Offline RobertS

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2018, 08:16:03 PM »
So true, and if I had to make a list of my favorite gunsmiths, he'd be close to the top!  I wonder if he was also a silversmith, or what other sort of articles he might have produced, maybe hawks or knives? 

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2018, 08:58:59 PM »
The Higgins family were all craftsmen of one sort or other. Gunsmiths,gold and
silversmiths,blacksmiths, whitesmiths, and engravers. I think Wiley may have gotten several of these talents.

  Hungry Horse

Offline RobertS

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2018, 06:45:47 AM »
I've been pondering on this, and might be suffering from an overactive imagination, but could it be that this might have originally been a fullstock rifle?  If it were percussion instead of flint, the thought would have never occurred to me.

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2018, 07:16:37 PM »
It entirely possible, but Wiley Higgins was a trend setter, and may have built it as a half stock. It is located in the west, and the trip out west in the day, was almost never without excitement, so it could have been damaged and repaired. If so whoever did the work didn’t do a bad job from what I can see from the pictures.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1772
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2018, 01:15:00 AM »
Now I never would have guessed from the pictures in Noble's book that it was brass and silver. Yowza.
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Goo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2018, 05:07:07 AM »
Well all i can say is this Looks like license to get creative and expand the meaning of tradditional.
Opinions are expensive. Rich people rarely if ever voice their opinion.

Offline WElliott

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 593
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2018, 05:25:38 AM »
I’m just picking up on ths conversation.   According to a local history published  in the 1930s, Wiley Grover Higgins was a gunsmith, silversmith, and furniture maker. I would love to see furniture made by him. We do see his silverwork on his guns, particularly on the silver mounted pistol referred to as “Precious.”  The Southern Belle Wiley created on this rifle is of brass, silver and copper and I find it quite charming, although surprising to find instead of a patchbox.

The cheek side of the buttstock of this rifle is surprisingly plain. It is in original flintlock, half-stock condition, just as it was when discovered (as Arnie Dowd’s research determined) in 1912 in a hardware store near where Wiley had worked. Incidentally, the rifle Wiley made for FitzHugh Heard is also a half-stock flintlock. 

Higgins’ “Southern Belle” rufle has Wiley’s signature panelled buttplate..  It was for years in the Olin collection (Winchester) and went to the Cody Museum with the rest of that collectio years ago.
Wayne Elliott

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2018, 10:07:56 PM »
Thank you Wayne for answering some of my questions about this interesting rifle.

  Hungry Horse

Offline bgf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2018, 10:21:40 PM »
Well all i can say is this Looks like license to get creative and expand the meaning of tradditional.

Actually, a lot of originals expand the meaning of traditional, especially southern guns, but it has been common to classify everything outside a certain subset oddities.  Really a loss to us all.  At one point, it seemed like if it didn't look like an Isaac Haines, it was a fantasy rifle!

There are at least a couple of half-stock flintlocks in Ivey's book. 

Offline Sawfiler

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2018, 10:35:09 PM »
https://collections.centerofthewest.org/view/firearm_rifle_macon_georgia_school_american_silver_wood_brass_steel_36_?q=macon&partial=0&bbm=0&wg=0&cfm=1&pim=0&dmnh=0&ondisplay=0&offset=0&maxOffset=0

Heres a link to more photos from the Cody Museums website. You can zoom in pretty close and see more details as well as see both sides of the rifle. I know it is definitely not what we traditionally think of as a longrifle, but that is a beautiful rifle. Why don't we see more copies? or any copies? Its a little amazing that the inlay is so ornate and the opposite side of the gun is nice but rather unremarkable. Basically a silver washer for a sideplate and no carving at all.

Also, When I look at the pictures and make them full screen and zoom it it appears that the last stripe in her dress as well as the horizontal piece appears to be copper?? is that a trick of the lighting from the photography?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 10:46:11 PM by Sawfiler »
Wish I enjoyed what makes my living
Did what I do with a willin' hand
Some would run, ah, but that ain't like me
So I just dream and keep on bein' the way I am

Offline bgf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2018, 11:08:43 PM »
Also, When I look at the pictures and make them full screen and zoom it it appears that the last stripe in her dress as well as the horizontal piece appears to be copper?? is that a trick of the lighting from the photography?

Good eye!

Something is different.  I wonder if it was done to allow contrast with the arm and hand, and perhaps as well as to depict shade and depth. 

Offline Sawfiler

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
Re: Southern Belle rifle
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2018, 11:18:19 PM »
Reading through the thread again I notice that WElliot had already mentioned the copper... sorry for thinking I had seen something new. Also, I bet it would be neat to make a copy and make this a patchbox put the hinge at her waist. Reasons to improve my engracing skills...
Wish I enjoyed what makes my living
Did what I do with a willin' hand
Some would run, ah, but that ain't like me
So I just dream and keep on bein' the way I am