Author Topic: Question for the engravers  (Read 863 times)

Online Curtis

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Question for the engravers
« on: November 06, 2018, 09:06:23 AM »
Here is a question for you experienced engravers out there - what is your preferred method for holding a trigger guard when you engrave in the bottom of the bow?  I have some ideas but would prefer to use a tried and true technique.

Thanks, Curtis
Curtis Allinson

NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar and Workshop at WKU~ http://www.nmlragunsmithingseminar.org/
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline M. E. Pering

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 09:18:34 AM »
Curtis, I embed it in bondo body filler on a piece of wood.  I clamp the wood in a vise, and engrave.  I am not experienced, and those that are will probably advise embedding it in pitch.  But I find Bondo works well for holding it solid to the wood, which is scrap and I don't mind being damaged.

M. E. Pering

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 02:07:38 PM »
Hi Curtis, Iím assuming your talking about the outside portion of the bow?  I usually secure the front tab (what you use to pin the guard with) in a vise, then cut out a block of wood that fits the bow, and use that for support.  Hope thatís what youíre asking...


       Ed

Offline smart dog

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2018, 02:52:56 PM »
Hi Curtis,
I do what Ed does for some guards but I also have an attachment for my GRS ball that allows me to mount two small leather lined jaws.  Often, those jaws clamped directly on the sides of the bow are all I need and the bottom of the bow can be centered on the ball making it easy to spin for scroll work.

dave
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Online Curtis

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 07:38:45 AM »
Thanks for all your tips, guys!  This will be a tremendous help.

Ed- yes I am taking about the outside of the bow.

Thanks,
Curtis
Curtis Allinson

NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar and Workshop at WKU~ http://www.nmlragunsmithingseminar.org/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline kutter

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2018, 07:03:36 AM »
2 wooden blocks
One straight,  made from pine (soft)
one slightly tapered,,made from oak(?) so it hard

The (usually) tapered trigger guards , wider at one end than the other,,fit betw the blocks with the taper of the one
taking up the difference in width.
Any small inconsistancy is made up as the hard oak block presses the guard into the soft pine block and holds it securely.

If the guard is symetrical, non tapered, ect,,just use two straight blocks.
I have a bunch of different wooden vise blocks for holding parts scattered around the bench. One or more usually fits the part.

This is Purdey TG,,but you get the idea.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 07:04:43 AM by kutter »

Online Curtis

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 07:45:24 AM »
Thanks for the info and the photo, Kutter.  Yet another good way to "skin a cat".  Simple and effective, two things I like....

Curtis
Curtis Allinson

NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar and Workshop at WKU~ http://www.nmlragunsmithingseminar.org/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 04:09:04 PM »
I use an appropriately shaped piece of wood and bondo. I have a whole box of these from different guards I commonly engrave.
www.fowlingguns.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Dave B

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2018, 06:12:25 AM »
I suppose you could use any hard wood for this, I used Dog wood. I drilled a hole just the right size to thread the bow stud in and screwed down the back tang strap. Its very solid.

Dave Blaisdell

Online Curtis

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2018, 07:33:11 AM »
Thanks for the additional ideas Mike and Dave!  Both simple, like I said before I like simple.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson

NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar and Workshop at WKU~ http://www.nmlragunsmithingseminar.org/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2018, 08:24:57 PM »
I do not like the bounce you get when the bow is not fully supported.  So I take a 1" thick board and trace the inside profile of the guard, forward return and rail, and cut it out on the bandsaw.  Then I mix up Bondo, slather it on the wood, and glue the guard to the board.  Then I can clamp the board below the guard in my engraving ball and have at it.  The guard is fully supported and makes the engraving go a little more predictably.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2018, 08:36:48 PM »
I do not like the bounce you get when the bow is not fully supported.  So I take a 1" thick board and trace the inside profile of the guard, forward return and rail, and cut it out on the bandsaw.  Then I mix up Bondo, slather it on the wood, and glue the guard to the board.  Then I can clamp the board below the guard in my engraving ball and have at it.  The guard is fully supported and makes the engraving go a little more predictably.
Ditto, you explained it far better than I did. Any bounce and I can't engrave.
www.fowlingguns.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Online Curtis

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 04:59:24 AM »
Thanks for the info Taylor (and Mike).  The explanation of the bouncing makes a good case for securing to bow with bondo.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson

NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar and Workshop at WKU~ http://www.nmlragunsmithingseminar.org/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline kutter

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 05:58:56 AM »
With the two opposing blocks, you just set the guard down low in the blocks. No springing or bounce.
Move the guard around when you need to cut an area that you can't reach cause the  blocks are getting in your way, but you won't have to do much moving.

Saves all the body and fender work for each job.
 Been using the same technique for 45yrs for hammer & chisel engraving on steel plus inlay and overlay work. Never had a problem yet.

If you really like the encased in bondo style though, try using Cerrosafe metal instead.
It melts at about 200F/boiling water, weighs like lead.
'Rose Metal' is another bismuth alloy that melts in that range and might be less expensive as it is not specificly sold as a chamber cast measurment composition. Rose metal melts at the 212F mark also.
 
Grip the TG inbetw a couple wood blocks and pour the void full. Even a cardboard mould will work, it's only boiling water temp though it appears like molten lead..
It sets and cools in a few minutes.
A solid 'lead like' backer to work against.
When done, either throw the entire part in boiling water and the stuff melts off the steel/brass part.
As the water cools off,, the blob of metal solidifys again in one piece in the bottom of the pot to be simply picked up.
Or carefully warm to just over 200F and it'll melt off just the same. Reuse as many times as you want.
I've got the same stuff from 30yrs ago or more..



I use a curved wooden block like Dave B to secure curved TG tangs for engraving. Just for engraving the tang though and severely narrow the block so I can come in very low angle to the curved surface of the tang w/o the block interfering.



Those short, sharp,  fast helix thread dry-wall screws work great for securing lots of metal work to wooden fixtures for engraving. They are hard so I grind the heads down small(er) in several sizes for different jobs. Easy to start and hold extremely well.

Offline Rich

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Re: Question for the engravers
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2018, 06:53:39 AM »
Rather than bondo, I use Jett Set as a fixturing agent. Rio Grande sells it.