Author Topic: Vinegaroon experiment  (Read 5169 times)

Offline Mike Lyons

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Vinegaroon experiment
« on: November 15, 2018, 02:48:32 AM »
I’ve got a mason jar of apple cider vinegar mixed with a cleaned steel wool pad and cut nails and the same mixed with white vinegar. Seems the white vinegar bubbles more and stays clearer.  The apple cider vinegar is amber in color to start with but seems to be getting more cloudy than the white concoction.  When you shake them they are both cloudy but the apple cider one is much dirtier in appearance.  The white vinegar separates quicker when left to settle and just appears cleaner.  The top two are settled and the bottom two have been shaken.  I have a small piece of maple stock that I’m going to stain on each side after it stops bubbling and working. 







« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 04:20:17 AM by Afghanvet »

Offline longcruise

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2018, 03:42:26 AM »
The Amber goom ba might be oxidation (rust).  If the metal is exposed to above the surface of the vinegar it will do that.  When I keep it completely immersed it makes a black residue that can be strained out.  That's with plain white vinegar. never tried the cider vinegar.

Keep us posted on your results.
Mike Lee

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 09:13:25 AM »
For use on leather it takes weeks before it works properly.  I heated a batch in a double boiler to speed things along.  Still took weeks to work right.  It made the leather indigo blue.   

Offline David Rase

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 09:26:56 AM »
For use on leather it takes weeks before it works properly.  I heated a batch in a double boiler to speed things along.  Still took weeks to work right.  It made the leather indigo blue.   
My batch also gave my leather a blue hue when initially applied.  Once I let it dry and rubbed it down with several coats of Neat's foot oil, the leather turned black.
David

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 03:38:00 PM »
I used it on a horn strap and it turned the leather a blueish dark gray over time it has turned to a dark gray. I was trying for black.
Dennis
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Offline Goo

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2018, 04:05:07 PM »
I used a very red vinegaroon that was a result of Wade Patton's file sharpening suggestion.  I used it on a maple stock after I wasn't pleased with aqua Fortis results.   The iron oxide ,if that's what it is turned very black after applying heat.  I rubbed it back and was able to reveal the figure in the wood
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Offline Mauser06

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2018, 05:07:07 PM »
Goo, do you have pics of that rifle??


I have a few gallons of that in the basement.... actually, I just got lazy after my files were done. I took the files out...but never carried the bucket to dispose of it.  About half of it evaporated. The last week's it's been holding strong. 

I have scraps to test it on...but would be nice to see a rifle finished with it.

Offline longcruise

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2018, 08:41:11 PM »
If you want to avoid the fermentation time, you can dissolve some ferric nitrate crystals in water just the same as if you are going to stain wood. The results are the same as the vinagaroon.

If you soak the leather in a strong tea to add tannin it will darken up some.
Mike Lee

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2018, 09:23:06 PM »
I'll give it some time to work but I'm curious if using white vinegar will produce the same results on wood and leather as apple cider vinegar. My guess right now is that the apple cider vinegar concoction will give a more satisfying result because it starts off amber in color.  One is made from apples and the other from grains, grapes or other stuff.  White vinegar is normally used for cleaning because it is clear where Apple vinegar is used for consumption.  Using apple vinegar for cleaning would stain.  I think I'm after that nice additional stain color that apple cider vinegar produces but, I may be wrong.  I need to stain some knife scales and might use the one that looks the best to complete that project when this is over.

Offline Goo

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2018, 05:46:42 AM »
Goo, do you have pics of that rifle??


I have a few gallons of that in the basement.... actually, I just got lazy after my files were done. I took the files out...but never carried the bucket to dispose of it.  About half of it evaporated. The last week's it's been holding strong. 

I have scraps to test it on...but would be nice to see a rifle finished with it.

Hi Mauser I'll try to get time soon to post a pic
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 03:01:01 PM by Goo »
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Offline Rich

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2018, 09:33:38 AM »
I made mine as a byproduct of putting a bunch of needle files in cider vinegar. I did one rifle stock with it and it turned out great. After a few months, the vinegaroon left in the bottle turned a cloudy red color. It no longer worked on maple. It did stain leather black. The only problem was that it had a terrible smell when put on the leather. (I suspect the source of the smell was the leather.) I had to soak it for a few days in baking soda and water to get the smell out.

Offline M. E. Pering

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2018, 10:21:29 AM »
I have made this before, and used it as a leather dye.  I happen to machine cast iron, so that is what I use, as the old makers did.  I have never tried steel wool, and I have only made one, one pint batch of the stuff, since a little goes a long ways.  I have used it to stain leather only, so no idea how it might turn out on a stock.  But my hunting pouch, 3 hip holsters and a shoulder rig have used less than a quarter pint of it, since it is strong stuff.

You really need cast iron for this, not steel or steel wool.  I suspect this is why some are getting a bluish tint.  My leather I have stained with this is not exactly black, but instead a very, very dark brown.  The blue tinge may be coming from chromium in steel... Just a guess.  Unless your cut nails are 100+ years old, they are probably steel.  A good source for cast iron is old engine blocks.  I would show a pick of my hunting pouch, but discovered my battery is dead... lol.

M. E. Pering

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2018, 12:37:17 PM »
The Cordwainer who taught me said it was the grease ( or additional coat of oil based dye, or polish ) that turned the old timers leather deeper black.

I always get a charcoal grey on my shoes but its most redeeming quality is, no matter how you splosh it on, it'll come out even every time.  I wish you could see the looks on people when I am on site coloring a pair of batts.

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2018, 03:01:19 PM »
I always use cider vinegar, never use steel wool but use wrought nails and bits, skim more than I strain and always get black after oiling. 

Offline Goo

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2018, 05:54:32 PM »
Goo, do you have pics of that rifle??


I have a few gallons of that in the basement.... actually, I just got lazy after my files were done. I took the files out...but never carried the bucket to dispose of it.  About half of it evaporated. The last week's it's been holding strong. 

I have scraps to test it on...but would be nice to see a rifle finished with it.


Hi Mauser here is a pic of the fowler I referenced not great but it is vinegaroon and heat gun after aqua fortis and heat gun wasnt quite to my liking.

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Offline longcruise

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2018, 10:29:36 PM »
I got a good batch using white vinegar and brake rotor/drum turnings from the repair shop. 
Mike Lee

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2019, 05:57:35 AM »
Here is 4 months in.  I don’t see a difference in apple cider and distilled vinegar. 







Offline Stophel

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 07:09:30 AM »
I won't even think about getting it anywhere near leather ever again.  I have tried and tried, with repeated disastrous results.  Turns leather blue, and then turns it to tissue paper.  I am told that it requires real oak tanned leather, not "vegetable tanned".... but I can't afford that!  :D  I don't like black leather anyway.

I've tried it on maple, and it (sometimes) makes a good color, though I find it duller and less lively than aqua fortis, but still far better than aniline dye (when it works, anyway).
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Offline Mauser06

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 09:11:36 AM »
I just did a couple quick tests with mine.....


Out of 4 gallons of white vinegar, there's not much left... maybe a half gallon. 

I used it to soak a bunch of neglected files. 


I hit 2 different pieces of maple.  One turned out with a nice color.  The other turned black and wouldn't blush. 


I'm going to strain it and jar it and experiment with it more.   


Not sure if rusty old files is a good material to use or not...

Offline J Henry

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2019, 11:39:09 AM »
  Many years ago when I worked leather,I was told to first stain the leather brown, then black to prevent the gray/blue tint,It worked for me.Try it on a scrap of leather and see for yourself.

Offline Clint

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2019, 04:23:00 AM »
In the old days, blacksmiths used vinegar to dissolve the fire scale off of new forgings. The fire scale is very hard and removing it made filing much easier. A day or two usually takes most of the scale off. I use a tub about two feet long to soak forgings and I have an old cast iron lamp base permanently swimming in the juice just for fun. The tub has a brew that's about two years old and I add a gallon of new vinegar from time to time to keep the level up. If your wood comes out too grey, try a wash of hydrogen peroxide after it's dry, that will redden things up a bit. I periodicly add a bottle of peroxide to the vinegar brew just to keep the voodo alive.

Offline BarryE

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2019, 04:38:27 AM »
The initial coat was vinegaroon. I used LMF maple and a wash of BC Colonial Red to get the red cast.  I worked the gray/black look back before the additional staining.


Offline LRB

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2019, 04:04:43 PM »
  I have a batch that is over 3 years old now. I use white vinegar because it is more acidic. I use old small nails, pieces of scrap from the saw, old barbed wire, ect. I never use steel wool anymore. It is almost impossible to get all the oil out of it. When I apply my mix to vege-tan, it turns black in just minutes. Not blue. Black. I keep wiping it on until it appears even, let dry and repeat. Also, I never bother to skim it. I just keep adding to the jar when it gets low. More vinegar and more metal if needed. Most of my work dries with a fine rust dust on it, but that comes right off with a cloth rub down. Ageing is the key. Let your mix age for at least a month before using. Longer is better. Another trick I learned, is that if you have an area of the leather that just does not want to take, wipe while it is wet with 4/0 steel wool using very, very light pressure. Almost just floating it over the area. When it seems to have taken well, let dry, then dampen and rub with a cloth to get the sheen back.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2019, 07:02:58 PM »
I have a question for those who have used vinegaroon to dye leather black...is it colour fast?  In other words, if I dyed a sword baldric black, and wore a white shirt under it, would I be in trouble?
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Vinegaroon experiment
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2019, 07:05:10 PM »
Its color fast like nitric on a piece of maple.