Need help with load

[hortonstn]

45 cal rice shooting 60 yards benchrest this is a match grade 1-3/8 bbl
I've tried hornaday .451 with .20 teflon 80 fff not impressed any ideas the twist is 1-66
Thanks

[smokinbuck]

I don't think you've reached what will be your best load yet. I'd bet you are at least 15 grains light.
Mark

[snapper]

Have you tried a lighter load of powder?

IMO for a .45 you are plenty heavy. 


Fleener

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Your rifle should create a ragged hole with five rounds at 60 yards.  Many of the .45's I've played with liked 70 grains of FFFg GOEX, .018" - .022" patch, and a .440" - .445" pure lead ball.  That's where I'd start.  I'd abandon the teflon patch, too, but that's me.  I shoot without wiping, ever.
Have you recovered any of those fired patches?  If so, what do they tell you?

[smylee grouch]

I think you will need more testing than one load combo and if your using teflon coated patching I would for sure wipe between shots. Shoot enough shots to constitute a load (10 ) shots then switch one component variable and try again. The teflon patching is for the most part great stuff but it has to be used different than denim /bear greese patching, which BTW is great stuff too.  PS   You might also want to check the crown and maybe smooth it up a little.

[rfd]

I don't think you've reached what will be your best load yet. I'd bet you are at least 15 grains light.
Mark

80 grains of 3f down a .45 tube, and you think that's too light??

[Daryl]

MY last .45 flinter preferred 75.0gr. 3F and 85.0gr. 2F for the same vel. and accuracy (just over 2,200fps and 1/2" C to C),
using a .445" ball and .0225" patch, lubed with LeHighValley - original formula. As this was not a 'bench gun' I was
quite happy with it's accuracy.

[hortonstn]

Thanks for all the advice I know I just need to test different combos waiting on the weather
Thanks again

[rfd]

i guess i'm just an old school f@rt and don't see the need for much more than 60 or 65 grains of 3f at best for a little .45  rifle.  dittos for tight patched balls and ball starters and hammers, not good for woods walks nor needed.  ymmv.

[OldMtnMan]

I only use 80gr of 2F in a .54 for elk. Very accurate and gives me a pass through.

Why do you need so much in a .45? What are you hunting?

[smokinbuck]

80 he's FFFg is definitely not a light load but if you look at what the chunk gun shooters are using at 60 yards it is. The chunk shooters are looking at one hole groups at 60 yards and success is hard to deny.
Mark

[smylee grouch]

Hortonstn: I think you found the answer in your last post, you need to do some more testing, trying different combos. I wouldn't worry about the powder charge number, shoot what your gun likes the best for best groups, hi or moderate numbers in the powder charge. Lots of shooting equals more accuracy because you will get to know your gun better. Besides, shooting is fun. 

[Dennis Glazener]

80 he's FFFg is definitely not a light load but if you look at what the chunk gun shooters are using at 60 yards it is. The chunk shooters are looking at one hole groups at 60 yards and success is hard to deny.
Mark

But aren't they using really slow twists i.e. 1 - 72"?

I used to shoot over 90 Gr Dupont FFF  (actual amount is censored!) in my 1 - 72" 45 caliber. The more I used the better it shot! Too stupid to know any better.
Dennis

[smokinbuck]

Dennis,
Yes, they usually do go with slower twist barrels but some are using a little faster. I have one that's 1:56 in .40 cal and it shoots well with 70 grs FFFg at 30 yards but won't cooperate at 60. 90+/- grs brings it back in at 60 yards. These rifles are a lot like women, no two are alike. I agree that he has to do a lot more testing.
Mark 

[hortonstn]

Well I got to shoot today tried 65 fff .20 teflon waste of time I'm thinking I need to quit teflon
Onward and UPWARD I go

[OldMtnMan]

Yup! Teflon belongs on frying pans.

[bgf]

Make sure you are consistent with your resting point on barrel, or better yet use a cant block, which will tighten up groups if you are not using it now.  Also, are you using a spotter?  The sights and target make a big difference.  My chunk gun will shoot one (biggish) hole in practice under stable conditions, but in a match if the light changes or the wind is fickle, it can get embarrassing .  Your loads sound reasonable, though I know several people who shoot 45s with 100 gr 2f goex or even 120gr 3f Swiss.  If the rifling is deep, you might need an even thicker patch, though.

What are you getting in terms of groups?  1.5" is one thing (you're close), 6 or 8 is another.  Also, are the group's round or strung along a particular axis?  If round, it's probably load or possibly spotter size, if strung out, likely wind or light.

[bgf]

Oh yes, look at your patches, to make sure they are not cut on loading or burnt up during firing.  Excessive scorching would indicate your not filling the grooves.  Cutting perpendicular to bore is muzzle crown too sharp.  Cutting on lands is wire edge--it will shoot out soon or you can run some green scotchbrite on a smaller jag through it to speed things up, though that type of cutting (pinholes around ball) doesn't seem to hurt things much.

[Frank Barker]

I have always shot 60 grains of FFFG with a pillow tick spit patch. You defiantly need to get rid of the teflon patches.

Regards
Frank Barker

[hanshi]

Something on the order of canvas or denim should be tried for patches.  They will be tight and that's good.  I killed deer for years with 80 grains of 3F in my favorite .45.  Some time ago I found that 60 to 70 grains was accurate up to 100 yards and dropped deer DRT.  At the range accuracy was impressive with the lower charges.

[Daryl]

I had a square bottom rifling in a Bauska barrel many years ago, with .028" deep rifling. I used a .457" pure lead ball and .022" denim patching.
Never needed wiping and was a great shooting rifle barrel.  My load was 80gr. 2F GOEX (late 1970's). Oh yeah - twist was 48".  Go figure them apples.
All it shows, is each gun is unto it's own.  There are some similarities and 'directions' for testing, but nothing is engraved in stone - other than those 'other' 10.

[hortonstn]

Shot today .440 ball 0.23 canvas dry lubed with ballistal  tried 65. 70.  75. 80 fff
Best group was 1 1/2 with 65fff  I did have to deal with some wind is it possible it may need more
 Powder yet? Or maybe I need better sights or GLASSES

[smylee grouch]

You don't say how far away you were shooting or how many shots you tried. If your wondering if 65 gr. is enough, try 70 gr., for 10 shots and see what that does. Then try 75 gr., etc.

[Daryl]

sights? glasses? aiming point size and shape - all can make more difference than the load.

I have no experience with dry patch shooting, sry.  My own .45 and .40 bls. a GM and Goodioen, both would
put 5 into a 1/2" c to c, using balls: .005" under in the .45 and bore size and .002" larger, in the .40. Some groups would run
up to 1"- that's what happens with fliers. off shots, poor holds, etc.

Both used wet patches and 10oz denim- that's .0225" thick, using LHV and 75gr. 3F, or 85gr. 2F in the .45, and 65gr 3F and 75gr. 2F in the .40. al GOEX

The same groups could be shot with water based lubes - WWWF + a bit of neetsfoot oil & 65 and 62gr. 3F GOEX.  I used 'British Express-type sights, bead front and wide V rear.
I know, generally not thought to be 'accurate' sights.

[little joe]

Personal skill factor.  More practice.