Author Topic: 40 years in the making  (Read 1410 times)

Offline rick/pa

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40 years in the making
« on: December 05, 2018, 03:52:32 AM »
Good day fellas,  I don’t post very often, preferring to benefit from other’s knowledge and experience on this site which is extensive and for which I give all of you thanks.  I’ve noticed a good deal of interest in English rifles which I have always admired.  I thought I’d share my own experience in building a rifle but at the same time I’m like the father who wants to show off his newborn child but still apprehensive that some one in the back of the room is going to call out "Hey, the kid’s cross eyed and drools".  Anyway, here goes. 

I started shooting BP in 1962 when I was 14 with an original .36 caplock. By 1975 I wanted a flintlock and decided to build one. Of course I got it all wrong and it now occupies a place of honor in the deepest darkest corner of the safe. By 77 I had built two more benefitting from previous mistakes. In 78 I decided to build an English rifle. Now this was back in the heyday of the Hawkin rifle and not many parts were available for an English rifle.  I had one of Jerry Cunningham’s Montana Rifle barrels in .50 x 35” x 7/8” and a maple halfstock.  I bought the L&R Durs Egg which might have been the only English style back then and dug up what looked to me like a shotgun style buttplate that would be similar to what might have been used. A trigger guard rounded out the beginnings.  I got the barrel, lock and buttplate inletted..…then I got married. 

Two wonderful daughters later the rifle had been consigned to an upper shelf in the shop.  I built several other guns over the years but this orphan lay on the shelf. This spring, the daughters having moved out years ago, the wife and I decided to look for another house and I began to clean up in case we found a house we liked. Since I’m now in my 71st year I decided I’d best get this rifle built or the grandchildren would have to figure out what to do with it.  If I were to start it now there are several, no, everything I’d change. Walnut stock, greater depth from heel to toe, swamped barrel, hooked breech,  buttplate, etc, but I had already made a start on it so like the song says, knee deep in the Big Muddy and the durn fool says push on.
 I reshaped the cheekpiece to a rounded style with a shadow line, made and engraved a trigger plate, used a chunk of black horn for a fore end cap, and used a pinned wedge to retain the barrel. Wedge escutcheons were cut from German silver, screws were fire blued. Forward lug on the trigger guard is filed to a hook that fits in a slot on the trigger plate and is pushed forward to lock it in place with the tail of TG held on by two screws. Trigger is offset to the right for access to trigger finger as was done on originals. Lock was rust blued, stock finished with aqua fortis and BLO/turp with a dash of cider vinegar, courtesy of advice from local stockmaker.  For some reason the vinegar seems to harden the BLO/turp finish. Catalyst maybe?
   
 First test shots were not promising, groups were about 4” at 50 yds.  Checking patches showed cut marks from sharp rifling so a few wraps of 0000 steel wool on a jag were run down barrel.  Next range session gave 5 shots in one ragged hole at 50 yds. from the bench. I use 70 gr 3F Goex from 90’s production, .018 pillow ticking with mink oil and a .490 RB.  I know its not correct for any known style of rifle but then I built it for me with what I had from years ago.  It just might become my next deer rifle but the SMR I built in 77 has taken more deer over the years than my .243 has. 

Now I’m considering doing another English rifle the right way. At Dixon’s this year I was fortunate enough to get a good look at Smart Dog’s fine Sporting rifle as well as his award winning fowler.  Maybe I can do better next time using the proper parts. 
Comments are welcome, I have a thick hide, a  sense of humor, and a desire to learn.  Fire away.




















« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 04:01:12 AM by rick/pa »

Offline Algae

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Re: 40 years in the making
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2018, 04:01:47 AM »
Very nice!! You should be congratulated! :)

Al J.

Offline Huntschool

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Re: 40 years in the making
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2018, 08:15:11 AM »
Given the times and conditions (I am 71 pushing 72 also) I think its great.  I especially like the horn nose cap and black ramrod.....

Now, use the currently available parts and a good English walnut and build gun #2 of the pair.....
Bruce A. Hering
Program Coordinator/Lead Instructor (retired)
Shotgun Team Coach
Southeastern Illinois College
AMM 761
CLA

Offline GANGGREEN

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Re: 40 years in the making
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2018, 06:26:21 PM »
I know next to nothing about English sporting rifles, but I admit to always being drawn to them when I see photos.  I think your rifle is fantastic and would be very interested in knowing if anyone supplies a "kit" with the historically correct parts for a similar build.  I've been wondering about my next build (after I get an English fowler off the bench) and this might just work for me.  Great job, very nice looking rifle.

Offline Daryl

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Re: 40 years in the making
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2018, 07:51:50 PM »
A great shooting rifle is the result - looks just fine - English mostly, with perhaps a French accent.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline rick/pa

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Re: 40 years in the making
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2018, 08:53:34 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  Much appreciated for what might be termed my red headed step child.

Ganggreen, Chambers offers an English Rifle  styled after a 1760-80 gun.  TOW offers a percussion half stock  for a later style gun.  If you want a flint half stock, you will have to pick and chose parts.  See also Smart Dog's tutorial on building a flint English gun. Much of his information can be used for a build. 

To do a gun like this correctly I would use a 31" swamped barrel from Rice, an English walnut blank that can be shaped for the correct stock architecture, hooked breech, buttplate and trigger guard to match the stock features, but most of all do some research so you don't end up with a mis-matched assembly of parts like I did.  My mistake 40 years ago was starting some thing with out doing the research but at that time there wasn't much interest in these guns.  Several others on here have done English guns with much better attention to detail than I have. Good luck if you attempt this.

Huntschool, Right now I'm looking forward to doing a 1750-70 style gun.  I was going to get the Chambers kit but decided to do the work myself.  I bought one of Jim Chamber's round faced English locks, ordered a walnut blank from Dunlap and a Rice 31" barrel and had them shipped to Dave Keck at Knob Mountain Muzzleloading for delivery some time after the first of the year with any luck. Right now my main pursuit is reading every thing I can find here on this style rifle.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate the knowledge that is gathered together in this forum and all the helpful articles posted here from some great gun makers.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 09:02:31 PM by rick/pa »

Offline rick/pa

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Re: 40 years in the making
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2018, 08:58:06 PM »
A great shooting rifle is the result - looks just fine - English mostly, with perhaps a French accent.

French accent.  Yeah, I like that.  French it is.  Aimez vous le carabine longue mes ami?

Offline Vicanddogs

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Re: 40 years in the making
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2018, 10:02:33 PM »
Very interesting I just order same barrel from rice and a piece of cherry from Dunlap to be sent to Dave also. Wondering what you plan to use for buttplate triggerguard excetra
Vic

Offline rick/pa

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Re: 40 years in the making
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2018, 10:46:55 PM »
Very interesting I just order same barrel from rice and a piece of cherry from Dunlap to be sent to Dave also. Wondering what you plan to use for buttplate triggerguard excetra

Hello Vic.  I've spent the past several months going over all the old posts here having anything to do with English rifles, all 250 some pages and taking notes.  I don't want to have to modify parts so that's influencing my decision. 

 I'm leaning towards steel parts for furniture since it seems that brass was used for lower class guns like trade guns for the colonies. Using the TOW catalog I've picked out two possible butt plates, Eng-1 or Eng-2, final decision will wait until I see what I have in regards to the shape of the stock. Trigger guard will be TG-fowl-LA.  None of the hook breeches seem suitable for a rifle but I have a friend who is welder and am thinking about using a piece of angle iron shaped to fit the hook on the plug. There are several other suppliers I want to check out also, such as MBS and Dave Keck has parts as well.

Do a search for English rifles on here and look at what some of the things that have been done, it will be worth the effort.

BTW, if any one sees any thing wrong with my ideas, please feel free to correct me.  I'm here to learn.