Stop Rusting

[rfcbuf]

My Colrain barrels have started to rust badly after cleaning diligently with warm water and Windex for each shooting session since using Pyrodex and Black powder hybrid load (15 gr. black powder followed by 35 gr Pyrodex). When cleaning w/Windex and plain water I use a stiff bristle 50 cal. nylon brush followed by a number of cotton plain water wet patches until patches come up clean. I rinse then dry with cotton patches but they come up from barrel DARK BLACK until dry. I then run Hoppes #9 patch, let stand overnight then dry patches next day. Those patches come up from barrel DARK BROWN until dry. Barrel is then put away after one swab with a motor oil soaked patch.

Before shooting about a few weeks later, I run a dry patch which comes up rusted. I'm worried that my flint rifles which have taken hundreds of hours to build will go to my grand kids as wall hangers that can never be shot.  HOW DO I STOP THE CONTINUED RUSTING?   and is there a way to remove the surface rust which via the naked eye has not shown any pitting when examined with a bore light.

[Dave Marsh]

Well from what I have read in another post you need to stop using Pyrodex. 

Dave

[Mike Brooks]

Well from what I have read in another post you need to stop using Pyrodex. 

Dave

Probably too late now.

[Joc7651]

Simple Green mixed half and half with boiling water. Dry it thoughly after rinsing and coat the bore with Baricade. I don't buy into the whole keep the lube natural thing. Put what you want on to lube your patches, but rust does the most damage to the bore than ANYTHING.  If you think a petroleum product damages your bore more than rust your nuts. (I don't say that meaning you personally, it's a blanket statement) Clean it out before you shoot and burn all the powder you want. My patches on a stored rifle always come back clean. One last thing. Bore Butter is hands down the worst rust preventative I've ever seen.

[WadePatton]

rfcbuf

That is the nature of pyro-etchant. I killed some bbls with it in my youth. Some guys can get it clean enough, but most of us think too much of our bores to risk it. The pyro-stuff is safe enough until you light it off, then all sorts of nasty things happen (that do not happen with normal black powder).

Here at the ALR there are dozens of pages and many fine entries by Mad Monk (Bill K) explaining the action of p-stuff residue on bbl steel. It's not a pretty thing, and the gases are cyanide, so don't enjoy the smell too much.

I asked once before if you could tell your location, such that others may help you find a way to purchase black powder for your main charge. Life can be much simpler that way.

[smylee grouch]

I agree that it might be too late to help, maybe send barrel off and have it recutt one cal and start using real BP. Stop using warm water and windex to clean also.

[OldMtnMan]

Well, you were warned in my Pyrodex thread. Hopefully, you'll stop using it now.

Vinegar is supposed to neutralize the effects of Pyrodex. Was the Windex you used with vinegar?

Maybe use some JB paste to get the rust off? If you get the rust off please stop using Pyrodex or your guns will end up wall hangers.

[stikshooter]

Use  black powder and clean with (COLD) water all that"s needed ! It" a proven fact that warm-hot- boiling water promotes instant flash rust  ,shoot black and proper cleaning will solve your problem/Ed

[Daryl]

Welcome to this forum rfcbuf. I see you are new here (4 posts), however with hand-made flinters, not new to the sport, even though you are using the fake powder.

Please stop as the others have noted. Those barrels are likely toast now, as Mike and Smylee have noted. Sending the barrel/s off for re-bore is likely your

best option, however, a look inside would tell whether or not this is the case.

According to those who know, Pyrodex fouling does not cause normal rusting, ie: pits, but actually causes sharp-edged craters as it seems to dissolve iron molecules themselves.

It is extremely difficult to get the fouling from the craters (microscopic or larger) to stop the rusting, - especially by only running wet patches up and down the bore. I would suggest,

the only way would be to remove the barrels, and submerge the breech in a container of water, and pump (tepid/cold/not even luke warm) water up and down the bore to

help flush the fouling from the crannies and caverns that are likely now in your bores.  Here in the North, most of us ALWAYS clean our barrels by dunking and pumping water in and forcing

 it back out - in, out many times, then drying and oiling.  BTW- motor oil is not a good rust preventive, either. Ordinary Hoppe's #9 smokeless powder solvent is much better, and better than

 Hoppe's own gun oil as well.  Seems to me, Ezzox was the best rust preventative in the tests. Motor oil is quit useless in this regard. Just go to a auto junk yard and look at rusty engines.

Steel will actually will rust underneath a coating of motor oil.

I would clean the barrels well, remove the plugs and have a look-see, clean them again, to see if perhaps they can be lapped, or best to have them re-cut. Look closely for really deep pits in the

powder chamber area. We have seen these pits actually work their way out the side of a barrel, over time - & that time was just a few years. That fellow always flushed his bores when cleaning

as well, but the hole appeared. He refused to accept Taylor's and my recommendations he QUIT using that phony powder.  After just a couple short years, he ruined 3 barrels on 2 rifles Taylor

built him.  A .32, .45 and .54 - all English Sporting rifles.  They were quite beautiful, but all three barrels, tapered octagonal, were ruined.  It was very costly to replace them.

 Bobby Hoyte comes to mind for re-boring. That is what I would do, just to save 'all that work'.

[Bigmon]

wd40

[rich pierce]

I’d lap the barrel.  And if that did not work I’d re-cut it; freshen the rifling just a smidge, 0.002-0.004” or so.  I’m betting that would cure it. 

[WadePatton]

rfcbuf says there's no real powder available at his location in another thread.  So maybe he's not in North America, all I can figure.  Of course I don't know what level of effort you other NA countries folks have to go through to get it, but I know you find a way up there in the GWN.

[OldMtnMan]

Wade.......He's using black powder now, so it must be available. He just needs to make his loads 100% black powder instead of 15gr.

[Molly]

Never had a problem with rust in the barrel however on several replica's that I have mounted on the wall in the basement room I have had some continuation of the "browning" on the barrels, esp the top flat.  Try WD40 "Specialist" Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor.  It may be a little hard to find and it's about $22.00 for a small spray can but it does work.  Would sure be easier that other solutions offered IF it works.

[WadePatton]

Never had a problem with rust in the barrel however on several replica's that I have mounted on the wall in the basement room I have had some continuation of the "browning" on the barrels, esp the top flat.  Try WD40 "Specialist" Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor.  It may be a little hard to find and it's about $22.00 for a small spray can but it does work.  Would sure be easier that other solutions offered IF it works.

Molly he's been using P-stuff as the main charge and by now the action of the salt (potassium chloride) in the residue of any perchlorate-containing powder (I only know of one) have likely micro etched the bore beyond normal rust prevention schemes.

As Mike and others have noted, it's probably too late.   Or that he (I assume it's a he) could fresh 'em out and start over. 

He did manage to get priming powder of the normal type, so maybe he can re-work that scheme to get some easier-on-metal propellants.

[Molly]

Never used the "P" stuff but I know many apparently do.  Was not aware that it would have that effect....moral of the story...

No P

[Mike Brooks]

I ruined 2 Damascus barreled shotguns with that stuff. was given a bottle for free , figured I'd use it up. What a mistake.....

[jmdavis]

Those barrels could be relined or bored and rerifled possibly,  they could also be bored into smooth rifles.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

How do you guys figure when you say "ruined"? 

I've heard of pawn-store finds with rusty barrels being cleaned up and accuracy restored with regularity on other BP sites.  So why is it that if a barrel rusts even once it is ruined here at ALR?

[OldMtnMan]

A barrel rusted with Pyrodex is different from other powders.

Rust in itself isn't so bad. It's what we do when browning metal. It can be stopped and held at that level or even removed.

[rfcbuf]

Thank you for all your comments. Although rusting continues to occur after my last scrubbing w/ bronze brush there is still some shine in the bores when a bore light is applied. I still have hope that the guns are not ruined. Have used a synthetic engine oil barrel coating after cleaning and will continue to examine the bores until they can be shot again here in the western N.Y. area where old hands do poorly in snow and cold conditions.

As an aside, the Colerain barrels have what appears to be long scratches in the barrel groves and to a lesser extent, on the lands for the full length of the bores. Was wondering if those scratches were part of the rusting problem that may have been caused by the rifling process before they left the factory??? 

[Daryl]

Since they run the full length, they are most likely caused from a rough rifling cutter.  Some of the Bauska barrels were quite like that, however as they run
lengthwise with the rifling, they seemed to have zero effect on the shooting.

[Joc7651]

Lap it with JBs Bore Paste. It will polish any imperfections out and take any salts left in pores left  to cause rust. They aren't ruined.

[Craig Wilcox]

We have a TON of great info here!
I used P-stuff back in the early '70's, but luckily sold the firearms that I used it in.  For me, nothing but black powder now.
It is my opinion that the WD- stuff has it's best use as a wet solvent when I polish the cast iron on my table saw and drill press.  A good coat of wax helps prevent rust, and lets the wood slide on the saw.  I also sometimes use it when cutting threads if I can't find my cutting oil.  Other than that, I have no use for it.
A friend I met on this forum sent me some bear oil, and I find it makes a great patch lube and a light pass on my barrels prevents rust.
These are my opinions, your mileage may vary.  But please do heed Taylor's, and other's, kind words about using only black powder, and how to clean after firing.

[Flint62Smoothie]

Try WD40 "Specialist" Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor. It may be a little hard to find and it's about $22.00 for a small spray can, but it does work.

FWIW in a long term salt-spray corrosion test of 46 different products, that was rated the number one best preservative and protectant!