Author Topic: Rifle marked J Bean  (Read 1482 times)

Offline 1sogdusm

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Rifle marked J Bean
« on: December 20, 2018, 03:09:26 AM »
I have come across a rifle and I would like to have help identifying this one.  The barrel is marked J Bean and the lock appears unmarked, full stock, 40” barrel around 45 caliber and seems to have a slight swamp. Here are a few pics. Of the rifle, any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.














Offline Levy

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 07:52:52 PM »
I believe that stands for Joseph Bean.  The State of Florida has a walnut stocked and brass mounted rifle signed J. Bean on a silver plate inset in the barrel.  James Levy
James Levy

Offline Hlbly

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 09:28:35 PM »
Hmmmmm....., not exactly what I expected to see.

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2018, 01:22:12 AM »
Agreed! If it wasn’t my post I would think the wrong photos got posted. Any thoughts?

Online Longknife

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2018, 07:36:08 PM »
Some possibilities:
Taken from "Sellers"
Bean, J. Lawrence Massachusetts. Percussion target rifles.
Bean, J. Old Town, Maine. Percussion 1/2 stock
Bean, J.H. Cincinnati Ohio Patent #141624 August 12th 1873, magazine gun.
Bean, Joseph R. (1808-?) Davies Co Illinois 1835-1850

Taken from "C Johnson'
 
Bean, Joseph Russell Beans Mound (now Apple River) Jo Davies Co 1830-1856
Youngest son of noted TN gunsmith Russel Bean, born in 1807 or 1808 in Washington Co TN. His siblings were, Baxter, Charles and Robert....There's a whole page about the Beans in this book....Ed

 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 07:56:27 PM by Longknife »
Ed Hamberg

Offline JTR

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2018, 08:24:43 PM »
I would guess its an assemblage of parts, stocked by an unknown maker.
In particular, the nose cap and trigger guard seem to be from a different time/area than the back action lock and stock design.
John
John Robbins

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2018, 03:47:31 PM »
Thank you to all for your responses.  I don’t see any particular features I would associate with Tennessee guns. I have seen one with similar brass furniture but it had a longer tang and did not use a back action lock.  I will continue to search for a similar example with the information Longknife has supplied. Maybe when I see CCF in Alabama he will have an idea.

Merry Christmas

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2018, 11:50:07 PM »
I think the rifle has a couple of TN details: walnut stock, straight butt lines, and good curvature in the butt with pointed toe. This rifle reminds me of late ones made by Washington Hatfield up in Indiana. He learned the trade in Campbell Co., TN and his guns always looked strongly like TN rifles. But as he got into the 1860s he began using commercial parts, frequently "store bought" brass mounts instead of his traditional (and somewhat unique) iron mounts. His guns also lost their "trademark" chevron-style cast pewter nose cap. I agree the guard and nose cap look like re-cycled older parts, but that doesn't cause me any heartburn. The guard is still correctly attached for a later 1850s-1860s rifle using wood screws. Simply because we cannot positively identify the gun's maker at this time doesn't mean it wasn't made by a "J. Bean" gunsmith, doing most of his own work and using salvaged parts to help defray costs. I also can't see the rear sight to tell if the barrel might have been shortened slightly. On Hatfield rifles, that was usually a kiss of death for his "trademark" cast pewter nose cap and most often resulted in a later style (or perhaps re-cycled) more conventional cap being added. Geeeeze, maybe the unknown maker's name was "Jelly Bean."   Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 03:04:08 AM by Tanselman »

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2018, 02:27:38 AM »
From this point the rifle will be known as “Jelly Bean” !  Here are a few more pics for what they are worth. Thanks for pointing out those features that I looked right over. The barrel to my untrained eye does not look to be shortened but at 40” it could have been. It does still show a swamp with the flare being close on both ends.






Offline Tanselman

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2018, 03:01:55 AM »
I was a little vague in describing what I need to see regarding the rear sight. I actually need a good side view that shows where the sight sits in comparison to the rear/entry ramrod pipe. If you could roll your last view to the side, so I can see both the sight and the rear pipe in same view, it would help. From what I can see in your last picture, the rear sight sits pretty far out from the breech, so the barrel may well be original length. Shelby Gallien

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2018, 03:22:17 AM »
Almost dead centered .


Offline Tanselman

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2018, 07:06:27 AM »
Well placed rear sight, so barrel probably not shortened at breech. Shelby

Offline Curt J

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2018, 07:25:26 AM »
I think that this could well be a late  rifle by Joseph R. Bean, who worked in Jo Davies County, Illinois, from 1830 to 1856. He was the youngest son of Russell Bean, of Tennessee fame. Joseph moved to Bad Axe, Wisconsin in 1856, and worked there, as well as farmed, until his death in 1868. In 1830, he was no doubt making most of his own parts out of necessity. By 1868, it was certainly more expedient to buy castings, as well as back-action locks. I was once in contact with one of his descendants in Wisconsin, who owned some of Joseph Bean's blacksmith tools. The tools were stamped "J. Bean".

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2018, 05:10:43 PM »
Curt J, thank you so much for the information, I will start my quest to find examples of his work. Please let me know if you have any additional information about Joseph or his work. When that name was first mentioned I did not understand his relationship to the Tennessee Bean family. Thanks again and thank you for that Christmas present.

Online Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2018, 06:44:10 PM »
 ;) ;)... Jim,... been watching this post since first up,... since I have no knowledge of this style gun, I haven't commented,... Not your "typical Tennessee Bean",... !!!,... However, I have been doing a bit of research, and the style as well as the mark make me think mid-west gun, and Illinois J.R. Bean,.... I have never seen a Tennessee BEAN signed with a stamp,... if they were signed, it was with block style engraving,... However, recently saw a nice signed one with script engraved signature,... still investigating that one,... !!! ... see you in Alabama,.. !!! ,,, regards,  Cades Cove Fiddler ...


jafar aladdin
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 06:51:39 PM by Cades Cove Fiddler »

Offline Curt J

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2019, 11:22:16 PM »
Having had the opportunity to see and handle this rifle at the Alabama Show, I have to say that this rifle has not been "monkeyed with" by anyone in modern times. It looks original and honest. I do believe that Joseph R. Bean, who worked in Jo Daviess County, Illinois, then Bad Axe, Wisconsin, seems like the most likely suspect.

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Rifle marked J Bean
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 03:44:13 AM »
Curt,
        Thank you again for sharing your expertise and taking the time to look the rifle over. I hope we can continue the research and confirm the origin of the rifle. Look forward to seeing you at future shows.

Thanks, Jim