A silver wire English beauty!

[JTR]

It’s not my gun, but I expect the owner to pop in here to answer questions. He says his computer is not working right to post pics, but expect he’s actually just being lazy.
The gun was bought a couple of years ago at the Las Vegas gun show, and had been found in South Africa.
Sorry the pictures aren’t all that good, but you’ll get the idea.

John

[Dave B]

JTR,
OH Yeah. That a outstanding piece of art. Did he have this at the CLA show a number of years ago? I saw a similar pice just dripping with silver wire. I am glad youve taken the time to get these pic's up so we can see them. Look at the depth of the proof marks on the barrel.  What a fantastic piece to study.
Thanks again for posting these and the owner for letting us druel.

[timM]

WOW.......That is gorgeous!  That truly leaps the gap to being art. One of my best friends would trade body parts to posses that piece. Thanks John

[Z. Buck]

is that a bust profile on the triggerguard? it certainly looks like it but its a bit fuzzy, that is very interesting, i would love to get a repro of that

[PINYONE]

Looks like Monte Mandarino type of work- I always say just when you think you are getting good at rifle building these old ones pop up and well got a lonf way to go yet! If some of you know Mark Silver get him to post the set of Silver Wire flintlock pistols here restored on here- but get out your knee pads first. They are magnificent.

[JTR]

Yes, a bust on the triggerguard.
Dave, This one hasn't been shown anyplace before. Here, for the first time.

All the furnature is silver, so some of the details have been worn away. I don't know if there are any hallmarks on the furnature, and don't know if it's ever been taken apart to look.
Here's a few more pictures.
John

[Madcaster]

 Pinyone,EXACTLY what I was thinking!

[G-Man]

Great piece - surely it is one of the known London makers.

The 5th photo down really shows in excellent detail something that a lot of contemporary builders don't pick up on when building copies of these high grade London guns - the lock moldings - look how thin they are above and below the lock - not really a flat surface - very thin and sort of rounded over like a thin piece of cord surrounding the lock.  It really helps slenderize this area as it is the thickest part of the gun.  Pretty much everything tapers forward and rearward from the area right behind the cock.

Really nice to see some great early English guns - anxious to know the maker - several possibilities come to mind.

Guy

[Curt J]

Magnificent!

[Dave B]

John,
What are the barrel dimentions for this piece? It looks slim. Do you have a photo of the muzzle end treatment?

[G-Man]

They look slim because of the shaping and all the little subtle details.  But they usually had BIG breech diameters and drastic taper, and sometimes flare (swamp) in the barrel. The breech on that Harman fowler was 1 3/8 inches.  Then  the outer diameter of the barrel at the thinnest part was so slim- actually smaller than the bore diameter at the muzzle. 

Whenyou first look at a heavily inlaid piece like this it is easy to be "wowed" by the wire and the mounts, but what really grabs me are all the little subtleties in the details that give them that wonderful architecture. 

Everything points and tapers forward and back from the thick area behind the breech.  There are no abrubt changes in direction.  The underside of the forend tapers up to the entry thimble. The comb tapers from the butt with no changes in the lines, and the wrist carries back into it.

The molding treatment is one feature that accentuates this slimming effect.

There is no extra wood left on them - when you look down on the barrel from above, you don't see any wood on the sides.  The sides of the barrel channel favor a little below mid point on the side of the barrel, with the barrel sitting on the wood sort of like a "figure 8" almost. 

The thimbles are not buried deep in the channel either

The ramrod is thin and flares at the muzzle - again, helps keep things slim in the forend.

Even look at the lockbolt heads - they are beveled to visually reduce the flat surface area.

The decoration is laid out to carry your eye forward and back, and compliments the lines nicely.

The mounts look like they might have came from the same smith as the Harman gun. Similar feel - a high grade sporting gun with martial trophy motifs. 

Just a wonderful piece.  These were high grade guns made for wealthy gentry.  So many of these great English guns survived in good condition being tucked away on racks on the walls of great manor houses, some hardly ever being used, others used a lot but cleaned and taken care of by the armorer or gamekeeper who lived and worked for the landowner.  At Blair Castle in Scotland there are about 250 years worth of sporting and military guns hanging on racks in the entrance way and every stairwell, signed by people like Manton, Twigg, and on and on and on...it is sort of staggering to see.

Guy

[JTR]

I only have this one pic of the muzzle, and that was to show the front sight.
The owner contacted me, and unfortunately he’s decided not to come on to answer questions. So now I sort or regret posting the pics, as I just don’t have many answers. I’ve only seen the gun a few times, and never measured anything.
As for the barrel, I think it’s about 36 inches long, smooth bore, maybe 50 cal, octagon to round, and I think with a small bit of flare at the muzzle. No muzzle cap up there, just wood. I also think ‘London’ is engraved on the top flat, but I don’t have a clue as to the maker, or any marks that might indicate one.
As Dave pointed out, the lock is inlet very nicely and just sort of seems to flow with the stock with no flat panels surrounding it at all. Probably some good lessons to be learned there. The gun is very light and very slim, and I doubt it weighs more than 6 or 7 pounds. Points quick and easy!
Guy's description above fits this gun to a tee.
Sorry, I don’t know more, but I was counting on the owner.
John 

[Evil Monkey]

It's nice. I don't think it would be all that difficult to duplicate it. The mounts would be the challenge (and the cost of the silver mounts would be a HUGE challenge at todays silver prices). As far as the wire goes, it's very nicely layed out but executing it would just take some time. Really, if you can inlay one small wire scroll well, you can do 1000. It's like intricate engraveing, as a whole it looks WOW but break it down into it's parts and it's still just one cut at a time. A forrest is still just made up of trees. The gun itself reminds me of a chambers penn fowler.

[JTR]

A copy would be fun Cody!
Here's a few trees to practice with.
Please post some pics of your progress!
John

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

John, your last photo is a great one, and the wire inlay reminds me of David Price's super work.

And I agree, Cody's up to it.  But he'd engrave all that wire too!!

[Mike Brooks]

It's nice. I don't think it would be all that difficult to duplicate it.

Jump right after it, I'd be interested to see your end result. I'd guess 400-500 hours in a gun like that for your average mortal human.....

[Robby]

Not a flat spot anywhere, amazing!!!

[mr. no gold]

Guess it's time that I own up to having the English silver wire fowler up on my wall. Pleased that you all enjoy it and take pleasure in what you see. Thank you for the kind comments.
Some details are in order here, it seems: The relief cast furniture is not silver, but Paktong. As I understand it, paktong was a rare naturally occuring metal found in a few deposits in Asia. The wire used for inlay is most likely silver. The larger inlaid flowers and leaves may be silver, or paktong not sure which. What is not in relief is engraved.
Stock is English walnut of good quality, carved with a shell motif at tang and beaver tails at the lock and sideplate.
Top barrel flat is marked 'London' in a wreath and the lockplate is marked 'Tems'. Proofs look like those of Birmingham. There were several familys in England bearing the surname 'Tems', but don't know if any were gunmakers.
Gun was found in Praetoria, South Africa five years ago. It was originally carried there by a family who aparently emigrated from England, or Ireland, probably sometime after 1810. The barrel has a Dublin registration mark on a side flat, 4XXX. That rule began around 1800, so the family must have left after that.
Gun was built about 1760 and has many early characteristics. Barrel is thick breached
and is one and a half inches across. Bore is about 20 guage and muzzle is flared; it gets pretty thin out there at the end. Also, the barrel is 36 inches long.
Gun is a joy to hold and must have been a dream to shoot.
The gun appeared at the Las Vegas Show and I must have been the first one to see it right after the dealer (just in from so. Africa) uncovered his table because it was still on the table. I couldn't walk away without it, so I hollered 'Charge' and bought it. It's likely that this was my one and only chance to own a fine gun like this.
If any further questions arise, post and ye shall receive, if I know the answer.
All the best-Dick

[JTR]

Stole it right outta my hands is what he did, then hollered Charge!
John

[James Rogers]

Dick,
Thanks for sharing with us the information about this wonderful fowling piece!

[Evil Monkey]

It's nice. I don't think it would be all that difficult to duplicate it.

Jump right after it, I'd be interested to see your end result. I'd guess 400-500 hours in a gun like that for your average mortal human.....

Yup, it would be time consuming, but it would not be difficult. Your response suggests that you think it would be and that surprises me. You are one of many members here that could do it no problem and, while I can see a newbie being intimidated by all the 'bling', I didn't think you would be. IMO, the wire work on this gun is not special because of the execution (in fact, the tight terminations of many of the scrolls appear somewhat square). Like I said, I could do it and my abilities lie somewhere in the bottom 1/3 of the member average here. What is stunning about this gun is the design and layout. THIS is something that is WAY beyond my abilities as I'm just not that artistic. There are likely only a few members here that could create such a pleasing and well balanced design. There are also only a few members here that would want to invest the time required to do this sort of thing into one gun. All of this is IMHO of course.

[JTR]

Cody, you're right!
In that respect, nothing about making a gun is hard. After all, it's just one cut at a time!

(Grinning from ear to ear!)
John

[mr. no gold]

For the record, I inquired of one of the premier gun builders on what the cost would be to duplicate this gun. Two figures were given: using off the shelf parts whenever possible and building a similar fowler would be 30K. Building the gun as the original maker did doing everything fresh, would cost 50K.
The wire and inlays are extensive and well done. Any squaring of loops is more likely to result from the viewer having square eyeballs than from any deficiency of the original builder.
A few more details omitted earlier: fowler has a hook breach; the female figure is probably Athena; and there is a griffin head engraved on the escutcheon. The tang, breach, barrel
and lock are nicely chased although this doesn't show up well in the photos.
So, how many hours? More than I would put into it. Thanks folks!
Dick

[Z. Buck]

being interested in this paktong stuff i did a little digging and found that there is an entire book published about it, the following is the "product info" from amazon

Paktong, a rare Chinese alloy imported in small quantities during the eighteenth century, was used by European craftsmen to make domestic objects in imitation of silverware. This metal has been shrouded in mystery since it was first recorded by Western travellers in the seventeenth century. The vital silver-coloured ingredient, nickel, was not identified in the West until the second half of the eighteenth century, and it was to be a further fifty years before scientists were able to perfect a viable imitation of paktong. In more recent times the mystery of paktong has lain in the lack of documentary evidence concerning its use in the Georgian period. This has given rise to many myths and speculative theories about the metal. Now, at last, the author's research among contemporary records has enabled the history of paktong in eighteenth century England to be piecedtogether. A well-illustrated study and discussion of more than 100 paktong pieces will help readers identify and understand objects mad

the book is called Paktong: The Chinese Alloy in Europe 1680 - 1820, just thought someone else may be curious as i was

[mr. no gold]

Zack, thank you for the great information. I'll see if I can find a book on it. Had no idea that
Paktong had such a romantic history. When found, I noticed that there were no hallmarks on any of  the larger furniture pieces which was disappointing at the time since a fully silver mounted fowler sounded exciting. An expert who looked at it said that it is Paktong and far more desirable than silver, in his opinion.
Thanks again and it is much appreciated.
Dick