Author Topic: graver lube  (Read 2128 times)

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7668
graver lube
« on: January 14, 2019, 06:11:29 PM »
I can't remember who's video on engraving I was watching but I'm sure they were using something to lube the graver tip every once in awhile. Do you engravers use something for this and if so, what?

Offline Ron Scott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1020
Re: graver lube
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 06:44:07 PM »
Hi Dennis,  Interesting question and I suspect you will get several different opinions. I don't use a lube but put a high polish on the face and heels of the graver.

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Re: graver lube
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 07:11:08 PM »
Wallace Gustler mentions using a little light oil, but also often uses plain old spit.I’m sure whatever you use less is more, so a little goes a long way.

  Hungry Horse

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5274
  • Tennessee
Re: graver lube
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 07:47:12 PM »
I'm not a real engraver, but I've been to the Engrave-In and seen a dozen or two videos.  Never seen/heard of lubrication.


not for the tools anyhoos.  :o
Hold to the Wind

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: graver lube
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 08:01:42 PM »
 I am professional master engraver in the Firearms Engravers of America guild. I don't know any professional engraver who uses any lube on their gravers. If Any or the members here want to see some world class engraving on firearms the guild show will be in Vegas at the Westgate hotel and casino on the 25th 26th and 27th of this month. Come See.
         
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline JTR

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4218
Re: graver lube
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 08:59:01 PM »
If you're engraving brass, a bit of Tap Magic Aluminum Cutting Fluid will ease any stickiness.

Put a couple drops on a sponge, and just touch the graver tip to it. A little goes a long way!
John

John Robbins

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7668
Re: graver lube
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 10:25:06 PM »
After Hungry Horse's reply I think I remember Wallace Gustler used a cutting oil on a cotton ball or something like that and just touched the graver tip to it every so often.

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3107
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: graver lube
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 10:52:33 PM »
 I believe Lynton Mckenzie used and recommended oil on a stack of cloth patches and touching the chisel tip on the cloth periodically. He was only a part time professional engraver though as he maintained that his full time job was that of tool sharpener ; )
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 10:56:32 PM by James Rogers »

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15062
Re: graver lube
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 03:00:49 AM »
I know nothing of engraving, but makes sense to me that you want no lube as lube might encourage sliding (the function of the heel), instead of digging in and cutting EXACTLY where and how you want.

Perhaps there is a some-where in a pattern, some angle or other, where you want less digging in, but I would think that would be attained with skill of using the correct amount of pressure and angles.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline M. E. Pering

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: graver lube
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 03:12:51 AM »
When I first started engraving, I got the advice from somewhere that you want to lube the graver.  So that is what I did for quite a few practice plates.  But after those, I decided to try it with no lube.  To my surprise, I noticed absolutely no difference whatsoever.  The graver didn't dull quicker, the cut is just as smooth and just as well as if I were using lube.  So today, I always just engrave dry with no lube.  I still can't tell any difference.

Matt

Offline kutter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: graver lube
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 05:05:40 PM »
An engraver I first learned some basics from 50yrs ago used a lube on the graver points of those that he used to work gold and silver inlays.
His primary work many year before this was in the jewelry engraving trade and this was a hold over from that.

These were the hand gravers only that he used it on (hand pushed),,not the chasing tools when cutting steel.
He used to lube the point of the gravers when detailing the gold and silver inlays on the firearms.

He used Wintergreen Oil for the lube.
A mere drop or two in a cotton ball,,that pushed into a  bottle cap setting on his bench close at hand. He'd often just quickly touch the point of the graver to the cotton and continue work.
It was to prevent the sometimes sticky feeling of the steel graver in the soft gold and silver, especially 24k gold.
Worked well for cutting brass, copper, aluminum too. Any of the non-steel metals that might be put in front of you.

He said it was common in the trade (Jewelry Engraving) and he just had that habit of doing the work on the precious metals that way.

He was a firm believer in a high polish on the points,  and for steel cutting that sufficed in getting a nice clean cut with the proper sharpening angles. No graver lube necessary there.

I used a graver lube as he did for a time,,following his lead naturally. But dropped the effort after a while as I would just plain forget to go back and relube the point.
Plus my style of detailing gold/silver inlays developed into a different method than his and didn't require as much or any removal of the metal.
So the lube is still buried somewhere under the piles of stuff on the bench somewhere I think along with the Chinese White.
Antique almost! Maybe they have some Ebay value..!

Offline gusd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: graver lube
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 06:16:03 PM »
I am not good engraver, But the man I learned from was a pro. He was on the cover of just about every nat. gun mag.
back in 70's-80's. He would use a cap( like kutter said ) with light oil soaked into a piece of cloth. He just touched the tip to it.
So I have always done the same. It seems to help went I engrave brass.
Gus

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: graver lube
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2019, 06:55:09 AM »
 The reason some old Engravers used lube is because all they had was carbon steel gravers.  Carbon steel is sticky on gold and silver.  Today nearly all the Pros. use carbide gravers on gold and silver because carbide doesn't stick to gold or silver. Brass isn't sticky it's just grainy when cast.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline M. E. Pering

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: graver lube
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2019, 07:27:04 AM »
Jerrywh… That sheds some light on the subject.  It really does explain why lube has been advised in the past.  The gravers I make and use are either HSS or old files.  For me, brass is more difficult to engrave than steel, no matter which graver I use, lubed or not.  I have not tried gold yet, but silver is easier than brass too, at least for me.  So far, I am strictly hammer engraving, since that is what the ancient makers had to do.

Matt

Offline Metalshaper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
Re: graver lube
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2019, 05:36:19 PM »
The reason some old Engravers used lube is because all they had was carbon steel gravers.  Carbon steel is sticky on gold and silver.  Today nearly all the Pros. use carbide gravers on gold and silver because carbide doesn't stick to gold or silver. Brass isn't sticky it's just grainy when cast.

Jerry,

 I wonder what the affect of planishing had on  cast brass??   I think I remember Wallace Gusslar planishing the cast brass sheet  before cutting out  the side plates and such <On the Old Colonial Williamsburg video.>  Your Thoughts??

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
Re: graver lube
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2019, 07:48:59 PM »
Plannishing the brass should work harden it.

  Hungry Horse

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: graver lube
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2019, 09:18:43 PM »
 Yes plannishing brass makes it harder but it is only a surface hardening. Probably only a few thousands thick.  The best quality engravings are done on mild steel or copper. I don't like to engrave on cast brass but firearms engraver have to do most anything.
  I hope this is OK with the forum as it is only a example of brass engraving but this is one I finished this week.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline T*O*F

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5076
Re: graver lube
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2019, 03:53:03 AM »
I think you guys mean "burnish"  Planishing is the act of flattening and smoothing sheet metal with hammers or rollers.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: graver lube
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2019, 06:42:54 AM »
I think you guys mean "burnish"  Planishing is the act of flattening and smoothing sheet metal with hammers or rollers.
RIGHT.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Metalshaper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
Re: graver lube
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2019, 06:04:49 PM »
Dave,

 No I meant planishing.. In the Colonial Williamsburg video.. I'm sure Wallace hammered on the sheet of cast brass, he used to make his side plates and such?

Yep just checked to make sure I wasn't blowin smoke.. about 34 minutes in he's casting parts and makes the cast sheet brass.. and then hammers and anneals it
several times...  <Uses a flatter with his assistant hammering ..>

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan