Leman Rifle Tang and breechplug

[msellers]

All,
I am having to build a custom breechplug to utilize a barrel that I have for my build, but am unsure as to exactly what type of breech and pattern is most historically correct for this.

Can anyone direct me towards a good source of this information and or supply me with where to find quality pictures.
Thanks for your time,
Mike

[rich pierce]

I just finished freshing the barrel on a Leman. It was a drum and nipple gun with a flint style plug.  Strong, parallel (not tapered) threads were about .400” long.  The drum was partially threaded into the breechplug and the face of the plug there was filed to direct powder to the flash channel.  Tang was stepped down slightly then pointed.

[Davemuzz]

TOTW has Leman tangs in their gun building parts. The visual may help you.

[rich pierce]

Looked at some Lemans in some books.  Appears many were simply rounded at the back.

[msellers]

Looked at some Lemans in some books.  Appears many were simply rounded at the back.

Rich,
Thanks, I hadn't been able to find any decent pictures online or in my limited research materials. So the TOTW plug is an acceptable model to base my plug off of.

I decieded to go forward with my interpretation build of a Chief Joseph short barrelled leman, but contemporary in that it is a left handed flintlock version. So a mirror image and combination of some of his later treaty guns.

Thanks everyone for the information given so far.

Mike

[shifty]

  Can you post some pics of your Chief Joseph Leman build , i am trying to get some stuff together to build one kinda like it.I saw the short Leman that Herb posted pics of on here and it got me interested.

[Dphariss]

All,
I am having to build a custom breechplug to utilize a barrel that I have for my build, but am unsure as to exactly what type of breech and pattern is most historically correct for this.

Can anyone direct me towards a good source of this information and or supply me with where to find quality pictures.
Thanks for your time,
Mike

This is and "Connestoga Rifle Works" flintlock with an 1840 dated Leman lock. These were the lower end Lemans, or so I have been told. This was an unfired 54 caliber fullstock rifle.
Note the breech tang. Not a quality photo really but this was close to 40 years ago.
Dan

[redheart]

  Can you post some pics of your Chief Joseph Leman build , i am trying to get some stuff together to build one kinda like it.I saw the short Leman that Herb posted pics of on here and it got me interested.

Shifty,
If you go on the Track of the Wolf site and click on their gun kits you can bring up pictures of completed flint and percussion Leman rifles and of all of the parts that they stock to build one.
You can also Google Leman trade rifle images and get many photos of original and contemporary rifles.
The Nez Perce National Historical Park Museum has pics' of Cheif Joseph's Leman. if you go on their site.

[msellers]

  Can you post some pics of your Chief Joseph Leman build , i am trying to get some stuff together to build one kinda like it.I saw the short Leman that Herb posted pics of on here and it got me interested.

Shifty,
I most certainly will. I am still putting all the parts together  to do it correctly. And it is going to be one of the fanciest pieces of Maple that ever fit a Leman, but that is what I have at the present.
Mike

[redheart]

  Can you post some pics of your Chief Joseph Leman build , i am trying to get some stuff together to build one kinda like it.I saw the short Leman that Herb posted pics of on here and it got me interested.

Shifty,
I most certainly will. I am still putting all the parts together  to do it correctly. And it is going to be one of the fanciest pieces of Maple that ever fit a Leman, but that is what I have at the present.
Mike

Really Mike,
You're gonna miss out on the most beautiful, interesting and notable feature of the original Leman Trade Rifle?, brushing on the artificial stripes!

[msellers]

  Can you post some pics of your Chief Joseph Leman build , i am trying to get some stuff together to build one kinda like it.I saw the short Leman that Herb posted pics of on here and it got me interested.

Shifty,
I most certainly will. I am still putting all the parts together  to do it correctly. And it is going to be one of the fanciest pieces of Maple that ever fit a Leman, but that is what I have at the present.
Mike

Really Mike,
You're gonna miss out on the most beautiful, interesting and notable feature of the original Leman Trade Rifle?, brushing on the artificial stripes!

I know right. But you use what you have when you are independently not wealthy. Had hopes to use that stock for a different gun, but need to get a project going and don't have extra cash for a basic stock at the present.
Modified to state the correct response about not being wealthy, at least monetarily that is. Family and other wealth is a totally different subject.
Mike

[msellers]

Does anyone know where I could get some more information on this Leman rifle in the Springfield armory Museum?
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=13021,DATABASE=objects,

Mike

[msellers]

Or this one. Appears to have keys instead of pins like most think is key.
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=9348,DATABASE=objects,

Mike

[redheart]

Or this one. Appears to have keys instead of pins like most think is key.
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=9348,DATABASE=objects,

Mike

Mike,
I'd say you're looking at a pretty standard late trade rifle. Square tail lock plate, 30" to 32" barrel, faux striped maple stock, rounded tang, brass hardware, likely steel buttplate, .50 or .54 caliber. (They call it .56 but the muzzles were coned for easier loading.) pinned barrel,(I think it's a brass tack you're looking at. , not a barrel key.) What else do you want to know?

[msellers]

Or this one. Appears to have keys instead of pins like most think is key.
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=9348,DATABASE=objects,

Mike

Mike,
I'd say you're looking at a pretty standard late trade rifle. Square tail lock plate, 30" to 32" barrel, faux striped maple stock, rounded tang, brass hardware, likely steel buttplate, .50 or .54 caliber. (They call it .56 but the muzzles were coned for easier loading.) pinned barrel,(I think it's a brass tack you're looking at. , not a barrel key.) What else do you want to know?

Redheart,
Thanks you, that was my first assumption also. But then when reading their catalog description of it, it is stated that it is missing a barrel tenon. And if you compare basic shape of it to the visible tacks on the butt, the head is more rectangular. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me, and I am wanting to see a key that isn't there. No doubt almost all of the Leman fullstock guns were pinned, hence why I am second guessing what i am seeing I guess.
Mike

[Longknife]

I have an original old beat up percussion rifle marked  "Leman Warranted" on the heavy 36" x 1" barrel. The tang is approx .475 wide, same as barrel flat. It is approx 2.24 long and squared on the end. The tang bolt is 1.27 from the barrel and the screw engages in to the trigger plate. The tang also at about 1/2 inch from the breech tapers side to side to match profile of the stock. The smaller is a repair, wood screw,,,,Ed

Here ya go,,,

[msellers]

I have an original percussion rifle marked  "Leman Warranted" on the heavy 36" x 1" barrel. The tang is approx .475 wide, same as barrel flat. It is approx 2.24 long and squared on the end. The tang bolt is 1.27 from the barrel and the screw engages in to the trigger plate. The tang also at about 1/2 inch from the breech tapers side to side to match profile of the stock.....Trying for pics but no luck!!!,,Ed

Ed,
Thank you very much for the measurements and information  there. Will come in handy for making mine.
Mike

[redheart]

Mike,
The picture is terrible, typical govt. operation! They say it's missing a tenon, not a key. You'd have to take the barrel out of the stock to see if the tenon is missing. Also confusing.
barrel keys do exist on Leman Rifles, usually on higher grade pieces. If you prefer them you could of course use them, but the typical trade rifle doesn't have them. Indians often put tacks on the forestocks of their rifles, but on existing guns many are broken off or missing. What other specs. do you need for your build? I have a lot of Leman info.

[redheart]

I have an original old beat up percussion rifle marked  "Leman Warranted" on the heavy 36" x 1" barrel. The tang is approx .475 wide, same as barrel flat. It is approx 2.24 long and squared on the end. The tang bolt is 1.27 from the barrel and the screw engages in to the trigger plate. The tang also at about 1/2 inch from the breech tapers side to side to match profile of the stock. The smaller is a repair, wood screw,,,,Ed

Here ya go,,,

Ed,
Does this rifle have the wilted lily, ghost or no patchbox? Is it a half stock? Square tail lockplate? What caliber?
How's about some more photos?

[Longknife]

Its got a patch box, not the wilted lily though. It pretty rough, Ill get some pics and start another thread,,,,Ed

[Davemuzz]

I have an original old beat up percussion rifle marked  "Leman Warranted" on the heavy 36" x 1" barrel. The tang is approx .475 wide, same as barrel flat. It is approx 2.24 long and squared on the end. The tang bolt is 1.27 from the barrel and the screw engages in to the trigger plate. The tang also at about 1/2 inch from the breech tapers side to side to match profile of the stock. The smaller is a repair, wood screw,,,,Ed

Here ya go,,,

WOW!!  And I thought my Leman turned out rough in a few places!!!   

[msellers]

I have an original old beat up percussion rifle marked  "Leman Warranted" on the heavy 36" x 1" barrel. The tang is approx .475 wide, same as barrel flat. It is approx 2.24 long and squared on the end. The tang bolt is 1.27 from the barrel and the screw engages in to the trigger plate. The tang also at about 1/2 inch from the breech tapers side to side to match profile of the stock. The smaller is a repair, wood screw,,,,Ed

Here ya go,,,

This one has most definitely had a hard life. But a treasure none the less. If some of these could only tell their tales.
Thanks for sharing this,
Mike