Engraving

[shifty]

    I have tried to do engraving in the past and can just not get it right I think it would help if you were and Artist ,what do you think.

[yellowhousejake]

I just got my information on the John Shippers engraving class in April. He provides a set of patterns that must be copied nearly one hundred times prior to class. The drawing of the design is the most important part of engraving. That is what he states. If you cannot draw it, you cannot engrave it. I believe that.

But, anyone can learn to draw. Some folks will copy a design once and have it down with perfect proportions, some of us may need to draw it 50 times to get it right. Like any other skill, the level of ability you achieve is determined by your effort in practicing that skill.

Buy some paper and a good pencil, and practice drawing.

DAve

[Mike Brooks]

    I have tried to do engraving in the past and can just not get it right I think it would help if you were and Artist ,what do you think.

generally, learning how to sharpen is the biggest hurdle. It's all gravy after that.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

...and don't think that once you get your gravers sharpened perfectly, that's it.  You will be re-sharpening then constantly.  If the point of the graver will not stick into your thumb nail with only the weight of the graver, it needs sharpening.  When you lose the point, don't try to carry on, or you'll end up in frustration.

[smart dog]

Hi,
The link below connects to a thread we did 8 years ago on advice for beginning engravers:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14623.msg137314#msg137314

dave

[j. pease]

John Schippers will be teaching engraving at Conner Prairie October 5-9 as part of Arts and Arms making workshop

[Mike Lyons]

There’s a few good articles in the recent Muzzle Blast magazine.   I think it’s a three part series. 

[WadePatton]

The "Engrave-In" is in Monteagle, TN each June.  All sorts of engravers will be there. Food, seminars, usually rains a lot.  I'll root up a link.

Listed as "private" on FB, but if you friend Scott Kirkpatrick Pilkington, Jr. and act interested, you'll probably get invited. 

It's officially known as the:

14th annual Engrave-In & Glyptic Arts Gathering (June 9, 10, 11) described thusly: A three day gathering for engravers, wannabes, and Masters to hang out and share what we do with each over. Coin carving, jewelry, car parts, motorcycles, guns, knives, stones, chasing, repousse, gold inlays, we’ve got it all. Camping, lots of food, tailgate displays and more . Live music, and hiking in the wonderful mountains of Tennessee. 

Not at all geared toward our spectrum but to all of the pro-engraving world. Met a jeweler there, and a lot of coin cutters, a cowgirl, modern gun guys, old gun guys (Mark Thomas, and I was the other one).  Also there was a silent auction last time. Anyone interested, find Scot in FB, or call him, Pilkington Competition or Pilk Guns should find you some info. Use me for reference, I'll cruise down for a day or two of it likely. 45 mins from here.

[dogcatcher]

All of the above, then read and study this link.  https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/24166-simple-engraving-for-knifemakers/

[shifty]

All of the above, then read and study this link.  https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/24166-simple-engraving-for-knifemakers/

       Hi dogcatcher and thanks,very good !

[dogcatcher]

All of the above, then read and study this link.  https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/24166-simple-engraving-for-knifemakers/

       Hi dogcatcher and thanks,very good !

I learned more from Tom Sterling's posts about engraving than any other source. 
His blog is also a good read.  http://sterlingsculptures.com/wp/

[WadePatton]

All of the above, then read and study this link.  https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/24166-simple-engraving-for-knifemakers/

Yep, everybody interested should give that a look. Very good.

[Jerry]

When I first started learning to engrave I spent a lot of time learning to sharpen my chisels. Then, after joining the American Engravers Guild years ago I found out that design was probably one of the most important aspects of engraving. If you did everything else right, if you had a poor design without flow the engraving would look flat without a three dimensional quality to it. Designing the pattern around the outline of the item to be engraved has worked out better for me. Thanks... 

[smart dog]

Hi,
I love to engrave and that, in fact, is what I am doing today and tomorrow. However, I do not like 20th and 21st century quality or styled engraving on 18th and early 19th century guns.  IMO leave the banknote stuff for modern guns. While you are learning to engrave, I urge you to also learn about the historical styles and how they changed over time, even on long rifles. For example, a common motif on British guns made after 1800 is the sun burst. I think it starts to show up in the late 1780s but really becomes common by and after 1800.  Also, at that time the vast majority of quality civilian guns had flat locks. So if you are building a mid-18th century British fowler with a round-faced lock, a sun burst on the lock or barrel tang is not going to be historically accurate.  If you want to build and engrave a British gun from the 1660s-1710 you would do well to learn how to engrave strawberry leaves. A percussion John Fleeger is engraved in a different style from a John Noll or J. P. Beck.  Learning those historical details is as much fun as learning about styles of carving, gun hardware, and stock architecture.

dave           

[WadePatton]

Hi,
I love to engrave and that, in fact, is what I am doing today and tomorrow. However, I do not like 20th and 21st century quality or styled engraving on 18th and early 19th century guns.  IMO leave the banknote stuff for modern guns. While you are learning to engrave, I urge you to also learn about the historical styles and how they changed over time, even on long rifles...  Learning those historical details is as much fun as learning about styles of carving, gun hardware, and stock architecture.

dave         

Most excellent point.

[jerrywh]

 Peoples opinions matter to some extent but the opinion that matters the most is the one who is buying the gun. Shipper's book is great for learning basic and intermediate engraving but many of the patterns are only appropriate on military arms such as stands of arms. His engraving is excellent. He is a very good teacher also in my opinion.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I wanted to follow up on my earlier posts.  Engraving styles changed over time and British guns provide a good example. In the first set of photos, I show 2 of my own creations that represent mid-18th century British guns. The style is florid usually without deep relief (unless it is cast in silver and sometimes brass) except for some deep shading.  Nick and dot borders dominate but there is a considerable amount of creativity expressed. Trigger guards usually had an urn or acorn finial although there were creative exceptions.   




Fifty years later, the engraving tends to be deep, perhaps so it shows up well against the browning and bluing that became popular. The designs are still florid but my impression is that much of the creativity is gone.  A few makers, like H. W. Mortimer, seem to show greater imagination and that may be because he was also in the goldsmith's guild. My attempt at this style shows the deep cuts and repeated floral designs and the almost universal pineapple finial for the trigger guard. I added the bear face as a shout out to Mortimer who liked to include animals other than the usual hunting dogs, game birds, and badly drawn deer.  The nick and dot border is much less common, replaced by running leaves, shields, and, what I call, the Roman border, which I engraved on the frizzen.  The sun burst is repeated ad nauseum bizarrely and unimaginatively adapted to some really odd spaces.


Then around 1825-1830, a paradigm shift in engraving style seemed to happen. The deep floral engraving disappeared and was replaced by fairly light but detailed tight scroll work. Although birds and hunting images still were engraved, the decoration was dominated by the light small floral scrolls as shown on the trigger guard below.


My point is that historical context matters.  Fashions change over time and although there are many on this forum who can recite all the important features and details of changing styles of stocks, carving, and inlays on firearms, it is important to remember that engraving also change with time. 

dave

[jerrywh]

I agree with Smart Dog completely. His engraving is also superb. I must also point out that the engraving on those British firearms was almost never done by the gun makers. The engraving on British firearms was done by professional engravers who were in the guild of the silversmiths and gold smiths.  It was actually illegal for a non member of the guild to engrave and sell it. In the W. Keith Neal books on British gun makers there are copies of receipts for engraving done for the gun makers. With only a half dozen exceptions or less British firearms were never made by one man. The average British firearm of the late 18th century was the product of 20 or more workers. In Europe is was basically the same.