Removing a pinned barrel

[MuskratMike]

OK who out there removes their barrels that are pinned in? If so how often and for what reason. If you do what procedure do you use to remove the barrel.
 A year and a half ago I got my first flintlock after shooting cap locks since the 70's. There it was easy to knock out a couple of wedges and with a hooked breech out it popped.
 Mine has a very long 46 inch .40 caliber barrel so I am quite concerned with the delicacy of the long for-end of this rifle. If you remove pins no matter careful won't you take the chance of making them loose. This rifle is my pride and joy, it is beautiful beyond words and was made for me by Jim Kibler from one of his fine kits with additional embellishments added. I want to care for it in the best way possible. I now just remove the lock prior to cleaning, plug the vent hole swab the barrel with lukewarm water using a breech scrapper, and bore brush. Followed by another soak then dry patches until clean. After the bore is dry and the lock cleaned and lightly oiled I reassemble and run a patch down the barrel with WD-40. After that I wipe all of the wood and metal with a lemon oil and beeswax solution.
Comments?

[smokinbuck]

Sounds like you are doing just fine. Unless something HS happened that is causing you to be concerned, drop it in a river or some such other calamity, there really isn't a good reason to dismount your barrel. No matter how careful you are every time you remove and replace the barrel pins you stand a chance of doing stock damage.
Mark

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi MM,

I shoot quite a bit and I remove my barrel for cleaning after every outing.  Full stock Lancaster rifle.  I built a cradle out of 2x6's to sit my rifle in while I work on it.  I'll have to dig up a picture.  First I remove the lock nails and pull the lock, then remove the barrel tang bolt and push the barrel pins out with a 1/16 punch.  Hold the rifle, barrel side down, maybe an inch above the cradle and with a little tap the barrel will fall free.  Carefully set the stock aside.  Handle it by the wrist, not the fore-end.

I put the breech end of the barrel in a coffee can full of luke warm water with a little of mom's dish soap and pump water in and out with the cleaning rod/jag/patches.  That jet spray will clean the inside of the internally coned touch-hole liner.  When clean, dry out the water, and finish with Barricade.

After 20 years of this, the pins can get a little loose.  Rub the pins on a block of beeswax and shove them in the hole.  Pins stay put til the next cleaning.

To each his own.

-Ron

[Stoner creek]

Hi MM,

I shoot quite a bit and I remove my barrel for cleaning after every outing.  Full stock Lancaster rifle.  I built a cradle out of 2x6's to sit my rifle in while I work on it.  I'll have to dig up a picture.  First I remove the lock nails and pull the lock, then remove the barrel tang bolt and push the barrel pins out with a 1/16 punch.  Hold the rifle, barrel side down, maybe an inch above the cradle and with a little tap the barrel will fall free.  Carefully set the stock aside.  Handle it by the wrist, not the fore-end.

I put the breech end of the barrel in a coffee can full of luke warm water with a little of mom's dish soap and pump water in and out with the cleaning rod/jag/patches.  That jet spray will clean the inside of the internally coned touch-hole liner.  When clean, dry out the water, and finish with Barricade.

After 20 years of this, the pins can get a little loose.  Rub the pins on a block of beeswax and shove them in the hole.  Pins stay put til the next cleaning.

To each his own.

-Ron

A very risky and unnecessary practice!
BUT! To each his own!!!

[Mike Brooks]

Only reason I take a pinned barrel out is to change a worn out liner.

[Dave Tercek]

"Change a worn out liner" ?  I'm new, what do you mean by that ?
Thanks , Dave

[Ky-Flinter]

Worn out touch-hole liner.  After many shots the hole will erode/enlarge.  Not good for consistent accuracy, loss of energy, etc.

-Ron

[Ky-Flinter]

A very risky and unnecessary practice!
BUT! To each his own!!!

I'm trying to be like Mike.... living on the edge.

-Ron

[rfd]

NEVER EVER remove a pinned barrel.  absolutely NO need unless there is a specific issue that requires doing so. 

[Turtle]

 I never remove my barrels either. I tell the people I have built guns for not to also. I have repaired several guns damaged by removing the barrel. I also, and this is controversial, seldom remove the lock. I seal the lock/barrel joint with strip caulk to seal out blow-by. I remove my personal guns locks to clean and re-lube before and after deer season, and ask those who I have built for to do the same.  I have yet to have corrosion in a lock. I have also repaired guns caused by careless removal of the lock.

[rfd]

turtle, i've come to the same practice as you with regard to lock removal for cleaning.  i do it now perhaps twice a year at best.  one thing i've almost always have done is to fully seal the wood in the the lock mortise, these last few decades by wicking in and "whisking" with water thin CYA.  hardens the wood against mitigation by BP residue and the like contaminants.  dittos for the barrel channel.

[Vicanddogs]

turtle, i've come to the same practice as you with regard to lock removal for cleaning.  i do it now perhaps twice a year at best.  one thing i've almost always have done is to fully seal the wood in the the lock mortise, these last few decades by wicking in and "whisking" with water thin CYA.  hardens the wood against mitigation by BP residue and the like contaminants.  dittos for the barrel channel.

How do you apply the CYA?

[rfd]

How do you apply the CYA?

one must use quality CYA, which is any hobby shop brand, water thin viscosity only.  i use "hot stuff" brand by satellite city.  tear up a paper towel into double or triple folded pieces about an inch wide at the "brush" end, squirt on a bit of the CYA to the wood, use the paper towel to *quickly* spread the CYA over the wood.  thin CYA will get into the wood grain via its wicking action.  the paper towel brush will be useless (hard) after its first use, so replace as needed.  within a few minutes the glue is cured and touchable.  any clear finish can be applied over the CYA.  if the wood needs to be stained, obviously do that before wicking in the CYA.

added - don't breathe in the fumes!  quality CYA will "smoke" as it's applied and during its fast cure cycle.

[Mike Brooks]

A very risky and unnecessary practice!
BUT! To each his own!!!

I'm trying to be like Mike.... living on the edge.

-Ron

Atta boy! It can be hair raising at times but the benefits out weigh all  the peril encountered living on the edge.
 On to lock blow by. With a properly inlet lock you won't have any blow by, so no need to get out the caulking gun if you use proper building practice. Quite honestly this is the first I have heard of caulking your lock into your stock. I have heard of owners of poorly built guns using beeswax to seal up a gap between lock and barrel, but not caulking. I always take my lock out and clean the outside surfaces after a shooting session. I'm not talented enough to get all the crud out from around the frizzen/spring/cock with out removing the lock. I don't clean the inside of the lock because it never gets dirty. I may oil it if it looks a little dry.

[Turtle]

Mike, you criticized my workmanship the last time I mentioned this. Think-do cyl heads have gaskets?

[Mike Brooks]

Mike, you criticized my workmanship the last time I mentioned this. Think-do cyl heads have gaskets?

If you're getting blow by past your lock plate your lock is not properly inlet.  I'd probably glue some wood in the lock mortise until the lock bolster set properly against the barrel making the proper seal.

 Cylinder heads are supposed to have gaskets. Lock plates aren't.

[Eric Krewson]

I quit buying TC guns because the last one I bought had the lock had hot melt glue in the mortis to make it fit properly. To me this is an abomination of shoddy workmanship.

Back to the subject; If you remove the barrel on a Kiebler mountain rifle on a regular basis the lollipop tang will eventually wallow out the inlet and look awful.  When I was building mine the tang chipped out a little of the inlet when I was taking the barrel in and out for test fitting, it was way too tight to begin with, super glue to the rescue.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I follow Ron's advice, though I question who came first, the chicken or the egg.  I remove my pinned barrels every time I shoot/clean them.  beeswax on the pin and over the pin whole prevents loss.
I install my pins from the same side as I install the lock nails/screws.  they are shorter than the width of the stock so there is a hole in the wood on the lock side where the pin doesn't come to the surface.  That provides a guide for a pin punch that is smaller than the pin, and they come out on the rifle's offside, just like the lock nails.  That way you won't forget.
I recognize that not everyone has the fine hand/eye motor skills to get away with this on a regular basis, and for those folks, leave the barrel in the wood and take a chance on iron worms ruining your bore and the barrel you cannot clean or see in the wood.  I can't do that.

[Daryl]

Hi MM,

I shoot quite a bit and I remove my barrel for cleaning after every outing.  Full stock Lancaster rifle.  I built a cradle out of 2x6's to sit my rifle in while I work on it.  I'll have to dig up a picture.  First I remove the lock nails and pull the lock, then remove the barrel tang bolt and push the barrel pins out with a 1/16 punch.  Hold the rifle, barrel side down, maybe an inch above the cradle and with a little tap the barrel will fall free.  Carefully set the stock aside.  Handle it by the wrist, not the fore-end.

I put the breech end of the barrel in a coffee can full of luke warm water with a little of mom's dish soap and pump water in and out with the cleaning rod/jag/patches.  That jet spray will clean the inside of the internally coned touch-hole liner.  When clean, dry out the water, and finish with Barricade.

After 20 years of this, the pins can get a little loose.  Rub the pins on a block of beeswax and shove them in the hole.  Pins stay put til the next cleaning.

To each his own.

-Ron

Same here. Barrel comes out for cleaning after every use. Pins are still tight after 4 years of use, or whenever it was I bought the rifle from Jim C. Only my .36 has pins. BW
works well to tighten slightly loose screws - did that for years on the other flinter. Taylor instructs - yes- TEACHES all of his 'clients' to remove the barrel for cleaning, by showing them
how.
The Verner has keys - 4 of them. That barrel comes off for cleaning every time. I am of the very strong opinion you cannot get the barrel CLEAN without this process.  Pouring
water into a vent-plugged bore, then patching it out, repeated several times might get the barrel as clean, but I do not believe that.
 When using a container of water, sucking the water into the bore to full, then  forcing/blasting that barrel full of water back out the vent really cleans it and the breech face.
I leave the rifle's rod in the stock while cleaning the barrel.  These 2 flint stocks of mine are quite fragile without the barrels in them, so I take the requisite care - no problem.
The short, 1/2 stock hooked breech English fowler is a POC to clean - (piece of cake)

My dismantle is the same sequence as Ron's. Lock first, then tang screw, then pins.  With the hooked breeches, no tang screw removal.

[Ky-Flinter]

Thanks Taylor and Daryl.  I was beginning to think I was the only barrel remover here.  I didn't go into as much detail in my earlier post, but I too install and remove my pins from the same direction as the lock bolts.

Great minds think alike.

-Ron

[Dave Marsh]

I take my pinned barrels out most of the time after shooting.  If it is hunting season or plan to use it in the next few weeks I do not. I also always remove my lock.   However,  my question is that I have a Southern Mountain Rifle with a lollypop tang which I have all ready bent once and almost gave myself a heart attack when I did it so how do you handle them in a bucket??  I hadn't even thought about hogging out the inlet like Eric mentioned above so there is the second issue now.   Advice appreciated.   


Thanks,


Dave

[Ky-Flinter]

Dave,

I'll have to be honest, if my rifle had a long thin tang, I don't think I would remove it either.  I'll be interested to hear if others have a solution.

My Lancaster has a squared off tang, so no issues.  The tang on the rifle I'm currently building isn't long, but it ends in a point.  I'm going to drill a hole in a small block of wood for the tang to fit in when I clean that barrel, so I don't damage the tang, or poke a hole in the bottom of my coffee can.

-Ron

[Pete G.]

I am like Mike, no pin removal for ordinary cleaning.

[rich pierce]

A lot of originals show a ton of wear on the pin holes. Others do not. I recently worked on a Leman half stock with one headless “wedge” that had never been removed. So it seems that barrel dismounting practices varied a lot.

[Turtle]

I choose not to be offended.  I painstakingly fit my locks to the barrel with Prussian blue. This alone  is good enough if you take the lock out every time you shoot, but to leave it in all year it must be sealed with something. I'm sure other substances would work, but I tried a thin thread of strip calk and it works. I have experimented by leaving the lock in for increasing periods of time with and without sealer and checking. I think the recoil, vibration, and pressure combined prevent a perfect dry seal from being maintained.