Iron Mounted Relic Rifle...Kentucky or Tennessee or ???

[Tanselman]

I looked at this badly damaged and modified rifle at a local antique shop. The rusted iron mounts caught my eye. Its butt architecture suggests it may be from Kentucky or Tennessee, as does the extend square shank sticking out from the percussion side lug...actually perhaps more a Kentucky detail than Tennessee. Front end of gun too badly mutilated to photograph, with barrel shortened and bored out to a thin walled smooth bore shotgun, and rough iron bands holding barrel to stock. Rifle made without a rear ramrod pipe. I thought it might be interesting to discuss where this iron mounted rifle may have been made.

[BOB HILL]

Nice looking guard and architecture.
Bob

[tooguns]

I'd like to see the front end, the lock looks not original to the stock. A pieces and parts mountain gun?

[Hlbly]

If the work on the barrel and the iron bands are old work, I would think this could be one of the pieces reworked for the confederacy. What caliber was it bored out to?

[Tanselman]

Lock was probably stuck in the gun to make it easier to sell by antique dealer...was never in gun during time of use. As to bore and barrel bands, I'll have to take another look to get specifics. Bands were rather narrow iron strips, several of them, perhaps 1/4" to 3/8" wide, and somewhat crude...two or three of them. I have never seen such "blacksmith" type bands used to hold stock to barrel on a rifle before.

Regarding current bore size...it appeared to be a smooth bore, maybe 5/8". Barrel had been cut back maybe 8" or more. If I get over there in next couple of days, I'll get more accurate dimensions...and a few more pictures.

So now I have questions:
1) what did the iron bands look like on rifles reworked for the Confederacy??? Were they somewhat rough and "blacksmithy" looking?
2) would the rear, or "set" trigger be removed if modified for Civil War use? 

Shelby Gallien

[Hlbly]

The work on the confederate conversions was done by so many country smiths that nothing is standard. The calibers were usually military, 54, 58 or 69, but not always. Converting to a single trigger is a sign of confederate conversion.

[Tanselman]

The relic Tennessee rifle has a barrel length of 36-1/2 inches and the bore is .54 and smooth. The bands appear to be strips of tin cans wrapped around stock and barrel and attached by small nails. Despite the forestock being intentionally cut back from the muzzle, there is no bayonet mounting lug. Here are additional pictures to show the entire barrel and the metals bands. Shelby Gallien

[Notchy Bob]

The rifle known as "Boons Best Fren" has four narrow barrel bands, similar to those on this relic rifle.  There is also a wrapping of wire around the barrel and stock, just forward of the lock, in addition to the four bands.  I don't know what the bands were made of.



"Boons Best Fren" is generally regarded as a fake because it is apparently not what it was purported to be, namely a firearm carried by Daniel Boone.  However, it is a genuine old southern rifle, which I think makes it an interesting piece in its own right.  The photo is from the Kentucky Historical Society webpage.

We have a relic-condition Long Land Pattern Brown Bess in the family.  This musket was converted to percussion, and interestingly enough, the forestock was shortened much like that of the rifle which is the subject of this thread.  Its forward barrel tenon has an iron ring in it to retain the ramrod.  This Bess has "C.S.A." pecked into the triggerguard, but who is to say if it really was a Confederate piece or not?  I'm not convinced either way, nor does it matter.

The rifle which is the subject of this thread has nice lines.  It would make a good study piece for someone who wanted to build a typical southern rifle.  Thanks for posting!

Notchy Bob

[tooguns]

Thank you for posting the additional pictures.

[Dennis Glazener]

The work on the confederate conversions was done by so many country smiths that nothing is standard. The calibers were usually military, 54, 58 or 69, but not always. Converting to a single trigger is a sign of confederate conversion.

I agree with Hlbly possiblely local conversion for homeguard use. Many of these units used whatever weapons that could be found.
Dennis

[shortbarrel]

Lets forget where the rifle came from.It is a SMR worked over a few times.. It is a survival rifle.bored out to shoot shot or ball. When I say survival,that means what you can put on the table.small or large game.

[Tanselman]

One of the biggest enjoyments of collecting southern rifles is figuring out where they come from...since there aren't nearly as many fully illustrated books on southern rifles as there are northern rifles...and most books on southern guns are incomplete in the given state's coverage. So when a southern gun that's iron mounted shows up, it's often an enjoyable exercise to try to figure out where it was made...or most likely made. This one, which is admittedly heavily modified, still has a number of identifiable southern characteristics. It offers a "challenge" to others interested in southern rifles to try to figure out where it might have come from.

I thought the single trigger [with someone taking the time to remove the rear "set" trigger] and the rough iron bands were seldom seen and interesting details. I was pleasantly surprised the barrel measured out at .54 caliber, one of the bore sizes mentioned for possible military use. None of this makes it a great gun, or even a militia gun, but just an interesting piece to discuss when not much else is posted to have fun with. Shelby Gallien

[mountainman70]

I agree, Shelby. It's the old saw--"if this old gun could talk"  is what keeps us going. Especially in this sorta new  venture into Southern long rifles and culture.
Best regards, Dave