Author Topic: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins  (Read 1411 times)

Offline Hsaiz

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Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« on: March 05, 2019, 09:16:55 AM »
I have a matching pair of Sharon rifle barrel company 54 caliber muzzleloaders 1 Flintlock and one percussion. I helped some folks out about 20 years ago and they gave me these to muzzleloaders I've had them in my safe taking up space would like to know something about them or what they're value is. I am new to muzzleloaders and would appreciate any help I can get. The flintlock has some markings on the inside of the lock. But the percussion does not have any markings inside the lock. Here are some photos I did find some information on the web about Old West arms Lakewood Colorado put together some Hawkins rifles for Green River rifle works at one time. I'm not sure if these are kits or if they were put together by either Sharon or Old West arms. If someone can help me find out what they are worth I would really appreciate it I don't think I will be trying to shoot them the bores are very clean I ran a bore light in them and they look in excellent condition. Thank you and God bless






























Offline rich pierce

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2019, 03:04:51 PM »
On kit guns such as these itís hard to definitively know whether factory assembled or put together and finished by someone else. If I recall Sharon only sold kits not assembled rifles.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Roger B

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 03:44:53 PM »
I think Rich is right. To my memory Sharon only sold kits & barrels.  Locks and triggers were L & R. The barrels on your rifles will be 1 turn in 72" and should shoot very well. Sharon also made a Fowler kit and a "trade rifle" that was was a little like a Leman. I dont remember any outfit that routinely finished the guns, so I would bet that they were finished by the owner or perhaps a builder that the owner contracted with. They were good kits made from good quality parts of the day. I would think that if the workmanship and condition are good I would price them in the $750.00 and up range with the proviso that I tend to undervalue stuff that I sell.
Roger B

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Offline Huntschool

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 08:09:29 PM »
Hsaiz:

I think most of the info you received over on the other site was pretty close.  What Roger and Rich have said her is correct.  Sharon sold kits save for some special deals and obviously "made" guns for ad copy.  I do not think Old West Arms actually assembeled any at least not in any number if they did.  They bought out remaining stock when Sharon closed up and sold said kits until they ran out.

All the componnents of barrel and lock were top notch as has been noted. Some other hardwre may not have been exactly correct but back then it ws good enough.  The stock wood was rather plain but so was the wood on that style of original Hawken guns. 

I own a half stock percussion model and it has had the devil shot out of it.  It still shoots quite well after all these years and oh so many shots.

If you decide to sell, I might be interested in the flintlock.  PM me here if so.

Good luck.

Bruce A. Hering
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Shotgun Team Coach
Southeastern Illinois College
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CLA

Offline Mtn Meek

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 09:05:09 PM »
Mr Hsaiz,

I believe you have a nice pair of custom Hawken rifles.  But I see very little in the pictures you posted to suggest that these were made by Sharon Rifle Barrel Co. or built from their kits.

Sharon made their own barrels and some of their component parts, but they used L&R percussion locks and double set triggers.  The L&R percussion lock was the early version as shown in this picture.


The lock on the percussion rifle you have appears to be the Hawken lock designed by Ron Long.  I don't see the "Long's Locks" over "Denver" stamp on the inside of the lock, so it is likely one that was assembled from his lock kit.

Similarly, the hooked percussion breech plug on your rifle is also one of Ron Long's breech plugs, not one of Sharon's.  Note the difference in the shape of the snail in the photo above.

The butt plates on your two rifles do not match each other.  They also don't look like the butt plates that Sharon used on their rifles.  The butt plate that Sharon included with their half stock kit had a toe that swept way back past the heel, as seen in this picture.


They used a different butt plate on their full stock Hawken rifles that was more correct.  Track of the Wolf still sells a version of it, BP-HAWK-SE-I.


This is what a typical Sharon full stock Hawken looks like.


Your percussion rifle appears to have the L&R triggers with the curved front trigger like Sharon used, but the flintlock rifle appears to have Ron Long triggers.

Also, I have not seen any references in adds, catalog, or product reviews that indicated that Sharon offered a flintlock version of their rifle.  Even though your flintlock is an L&R lock, the lock plate shape is different than that on the L&R percussion lock and would not fit in the same lock mortise.  Sharon would have had to have developed different jigs and inlet guides to cut the flintlock mortise in their pre-carve and pre-inlet stocks.  I've seen no evidence that they did this.

Lastly, if those are Sharon barrels on your two guns, they should have Sharon's stamp on them somewhere.  It looks like this.


It might be on one of the hidden flats, and you may need to take the barrels out of the stock to find it.

By the way, Sharon did offer factory assembled rifles, but they apparently did not sell many of them.  I've only seen a couple.

As I said at the beginning of this post, you have a nice set of custom Hawken rifles.  They were built with a mix of component parts like most custom rifles.
Phil Meek

Offline Hsaiz

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 06:18:37 PM »
Thank you all of your for the help and comments. Sorry I forgot to put the photo of the barrel maker on here it is. do any of you know if there are some competitions or gatherings in West Texas or New Mexico that these type of muzzleloaders are used for competition or clubs or organizations that rally around these type of firearms.


Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 04:51:56 AM »
Your rifles appear to have been built in the seventies, when Chromium Trioxide was the stain of choice.  They have oxidized and have turned the characteristic green hue.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline Hsaiz

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 05:32:32 AM »
 I'm not sure what that means but they do not seem to have a green tint to them the wood is Curly maple. can you please post some pics of what the green tent you are talking about I would appreciate it thank you.

Offline Robby

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2019, 02:35:32 PM »



That looks greenish to me.
Robby
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2019, 05:50:12 PM »
Camera and lighting make for weird looks sometimes. Iíve taken pictures of the same gun under different lighting and wondered how in the world did my gun change colors.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Hsaiz

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2019, 06:18:24 PM »
I'm sorry but I just can't see green in them.
The photo with the buttstocks is up close with flash which tends to lighten or change the color of the actual color. The intent of that photo was to show some rub marks or scuffs. Refer back to photos with the rifles side by side each other. That is the actual colors of the rifles. Again thanks for the comments.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2019, 06:56:05 PM »
I agree with the green tint theory, I have a rifle from the same time period that was obviously stained with chromium trioxide and has the same green tint. I can change the lighting and it is less visible but I know it is there.




Offline Hsaiz

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2019, 07:34:17 PM »
chromium trioxide does that change the value of the firearm. And if so how much. I'm just trying to get enough information so that I can put them up for sale and be as accurate with what I have so that potential buyers are not having to do a lot of research. Again thanks to all that have posted and commented for your post and your assistance.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2019, 08:13:41 PM »
These guns are good solid Hawken replicas, well made, have good components, and they look practically new. They have some nostalgia for old timers. Check Gunbroker for comparables and look for guns actually getting bids. I see a lot of stuff there with no time left and no bids - overpriced.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2019, 12:37:20 AM »
Hsaiz:  I just made an observation that your buyer is also going to make, and point out to you.  A buyer may try to use the staining technique, which is by modern comparison a less than great colour for maple, as a bargaining factor.  It would be a simple job to scrape the stock(s) and restain using Ferric Nitrate, thereby imparting a much more traditional colour.  And that, to my mind, would increase their value.
These two rifles are quite saleable as they are.  So you would have to consider your time as worthless to actually gain financially by doing the work.  But it would make them more 'saleable'.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline ScottH

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2019, 12:59:55 AM »
Another factor to be considered for value, is the condition of the bores inside of the barrels.
Unfortunately there have been many good quality muzzleloaders, that have been shot and then not cleaned properly soon after shooting, that then have rusted / pitted bores. These two look outwardly to not have been used or abused. Hopefully the bores of the barrels are shiny and smooth like they were after the barrel maker finished making them.
Good luck on your quest to sell these guns.

Offline Hsaiz

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2019, 01:01:24 AM »
Thanks for the suggestion on refinishing the stocks I would have to remove the barrels from a stock to do a good job I have never removed a stock like this where there are pins through it to hold a barrel in place. Is there a website I can go to that will show me how to remove the barrel. I'm not really sure I want to go through all that trouble. This started out getting information on what I had now it seems like I may be refinishing the stocks and before you know it you guys might have me start shooting them and before you know it I will be wearing Buckskin and a coonskin hat LOL. I appreciate all the advice I've been getting.

Offline oldarcher

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2019, 02:38:48 AM »
You have very desirable custom Hawken rifles.  Made from an assortment of Quality parts. Sharon barrels are very desirable and some folks feel that they were among the best barrels made. I certainly do. My personal rifle is a GRRW Vincent however some of the very best shooting barrels were Sharon.  I have searched out Sharon barrels to make contemporary rifles and will be offering a half stock Hawken for sale here shortly. Mtn Meek really knows the history of GRRW and Sharon, I would  take his opinion as fact.
Do not change the finish, Chromium Trioxide was commonly used as a stain in the 70-80's and although some folks do not like the results, others do.  Any change that you make will devalue the rifles.  simply make sure that the barrels are oiled and the rifles are cared for and offer them for sale when you are ready. DO NOT MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THEM!!!  I saw one post that said $750...that's very low, probably the $1250 + range is more realistic, as always, the buyer determines the value. I would put them on Gun Broker and see what they bring.

Offline Hsaiz

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2019, 06:16:27 PM »
OldArcher thank you for your Insight.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2019, 01:07:35 AM »
Good advice.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2019, 11:16:40 PM »
I guess that would depend on who is buying it. I would expect a MUCH lower price for the green guns- actually would not purchase one unless it was
very inexpensive as I would have to spend a couple weeks re-finishing it. Since I can no longer afford my own prices, I quit. ;) ::)
Daryl

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Offline Huntschool

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2019, 06:54:53 AM »
Hsaiz:

sent you a PM.....
Bruce A. Hering
Program Coordinator/Lead Instructor (retired)
Shotgun Team Coach
Southeastern Illinois College
AMM 761
CLA

Offline Hsaiz

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Re: Sharon rifle barrel Hawkins
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2019, 03:34:18 PM »
I want to thank everyone who posted on behalf of the two Sharon rifled barrel Hawkins and thank you for your opinions and all the information I have sold the two rifles to one person. thanks again to all of you.