Author Topic: J. J. Henry Flintlock  (Read 3972 times)

Offline Shreckmeister

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J. J. Henry Flintlock
« on: March 20, 2019, 08:37:44 PM »
I'd like to find an original flintlock, the same as on this rifle but in flint.

 



« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 05:12:10 PM by Tim Crosby »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 08:50:52 PM »
I understand that would be your best choice but recinverting it or getting one from TRS are options I’m sure you’ve considered.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 09:35:28 PM »
I've gone back and forth on that, realizing it may be hard to find an original. 
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2019, 10:39:16 PM »
I’m getting more and more interested in these later flint working rifles that often went west. This looks like a beauty.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Ed/WV

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 10:45:39 PM »
I know you don't want too here this but a CVA Mountain Rifle Flintlock is just about the same size and looks.
Ed

Offline Bigmon

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2019, 10:51:56 PM »
There are folks that could re-convert that using the lock plate and it would be well done.
Just in case ya can't find one that is.

How about a few pics of the entire rifle?

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 08:29:21 PM »
I’m getting more and more interested in these later flint working rifles that often went west. This looks like a beauty.

I may have posted this rifle before.  Signed S. States




Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Tanselman

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2019, 06:40:03 AM »
Regarding the J. J. Henry lock, I never fully understand why, when a converted flint rifle still has its original lock plate, owners want to replace it with another original lock. Even if a similar J. J. Henry original flint was found, it's plate would not be exactly the same size, and there's a high risk that the bolt holes wouldn't line up well with existing holes...thus forcing more alterations to the original rifle and/or alterations to a previously untouched original flint lock.

Changing the lock out, even with another original flint, moves the gun farther away from its original configuration, and probably causes more, even if minor, alterations to either/both the rifle and the new lock being mounted. By doing a correct reconversion of the original lock plate, there are no bolt hole alignment problems, no slight alterations to the stock to make the new lock fit, etc., and the gun has been allowed to keep more of its original parts. I know people do it, but it never makes good sense to me to stick a different lock, even a good quality original flint, into a flint gun that retains its original lock plate. It sure doesn't make the gun more "original," and most of the time an experienced eye can tell the "original flint" is a later addition to the rifle. Shelby Gallien


Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2019, 02:00:38 PM »
I appreciate your perspective on this. After deliberation, I’ve decided not to do anything to this rifle.
I can appreciate it for what it is.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Hlbly

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2019, 02:42:39 PM »
Good decision. That gun needs nothing.

Offline crankshaft

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2019, 04:41:35 PM »


  When conversions back to flint and the drum is removed, a touch hole liner obviously goes back in? ?,   An easy sign of the conversion.?  ?

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2019, 07:51:41 PM »
Thank you for showing a little respect for the guns history after it was converted to percussion. Some of these guns were converted very early in their working life, and virtually have little or no flint history. For most of these fine firearms, we have no history documenting when they were converted.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2019, 10:32:07 PM »
The hammer style does make me thing early professional conversion
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Bill Paton

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2019, 08:29:26 PM »
Rob,
Count me in Shelby’s camp on not reconverting this rifle. Add my vote to those of Hlbly and Hungry Horse. Valuable history was lost when this rifle was converted to percussion, and that was done for very good reasons during its time of use. It wrote a lot of honest history in its updated form. Any attempt to reconvert it will force additional history to be lost, and the rifle will not be just like J. J. H. built it anyway. You have a lot of fine history in that rifle, and I hope you can avoid taking any of it away!

I hope to see you in Mars at the KRA un June.

Bill Paton
Kentucky double rifle student
wapaton.sr@gmail.com

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2019, 03:28:48 AM »
Thanks Bill. Looking forward to that
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline stuart cee dub

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2019, 06:47:58 PM »
I really like seeing these JJ Henry rifles. These are often overlooked as inspiration for modern builders.
 
That's an impressive patchbox ! Sure to impress period users :native and trapper alike.

The collecting trend is now to leave it as is and as used in it's final period of use. Nice wood too.

Reconversions no matter how well done are still just a modern taste tinkering with the honest part past .
This was a mid 20th century trend .Lots of early guns were reconverted to flint to boost their value to the antique trade. (vis a vis examples in Rifles in Colonial America Vol 1-2)

Also most of the members here are very ''flint centric'' as well .
(This tends to cloud our thinking like some kind of Jedi mind trick ;>)

 While I have no objection to fixing an old gun if broken through the stock or missing some wood to make it safe to handle and to stabilize any loose bits I wouldn't monkey with the lock . This one has a really nice hammer too ,shapely and engraved .

While it's always better if the drum were better supported by the lock this is long past its shooting life and seemed to have survived in any case .Also that's just the prejudice of a modern gunbuilder in me being too fussy about some work done long ago .

Leaving it as is very sensible .
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 06:53:01 PM by stuart cee dub »

Offline Mtn Meek

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2019, 09:21:18 PM »
I really like seeing these JJ Henry rifles. These are often overlooked as inspiration for modern builders.
 
That's an impressive patchbox ! Sure to impress period users :native and trapper alike.

I believe the OP is saying that only the lock was made by JJ Henry.  The rifle itself was made by Samuel States.

I may have posted this rifle before.  Signed S. States





Phil Meek

Offline stuart cee dub

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Re: J. J. Henry Flintlock
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2019, 03:29:43 PM »
 You are right Mtn Meeker re my conflating the JJ Henry lock with the rifle itself
 my error.