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Author Topic: Lock inletting  (Read 5199 times)
chuck-ia
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« on: July 28, 2008, 06:43:26 PM »

I am inletting a late ketland flintlock, I have the plate about inlet, did not go all the way down yet, I am about .030" from the bolster touching the barrel, decided to inlet the parts before I go all the way down, the plate actually doesn't look too  bad as far as gaps, plate is square with the top of the barrrel. I have the bridle and tumbler inlet, I am not real happy with the way the inlet looks, I know the lock will cover it up, just bugs me. I wonder if any of you professionals could show me a picture of your inletting of a lock? thanks, chuck-ia
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T*O*F
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2008, 08:36:27 PM »

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chuck-ia
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 08:48:57 PM »

Thanks for the picture. Mine is not as neat as yours, but will have to do. I just inlet the sear spring tonight, only took about 45 min., maybe start inletting the sear tomorrow, then the main spring, and I will be done with the lock. thanks again, chuck
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D. Taylor Sapergia
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 08:54:48 PM »

I inlet the lock plate until the bolster is full down on the side flat of the barrel.  Then I add the tumbler bridle to the inside of the plate, and inlet that.  Then the tumbler and the sear spring.  Then the sear, and finally the mainspring.  Everything is inlet fully before i go to the next component.  That way, i only inlet it once.  Even so, there's always a little clearance cutting to do so that parts move freely without binding.  Don't try to get it too tight, or it will hang up when the wood changes with the seasons. 
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D. Taylor Sapergia
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chuck-ia
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 09:34:36 PM »

Heck, I don't know, a friend recommended leaving a little wood between the bolster and barrel when inletting the plate. I guess to me it makes sense, I have not done it this way before, so this is my first. The way I look at it if I inlet just the plate all the way to the bolster, it is hard for me to concentrate on the very outer edge of the lock plate contacting the wood, which it should when completely inletted. So, if I get close, lock plate square, very little rock in the plate, inlet the innards, and sneak up on the bolster fit to barrel and lock plate to wood contact, does this make sense? Or am I all wrong? chuck-ia
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bob in the woods
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 10:25:26 PM »

Inlet the plate all the way. If it is sinking too much into the wood, I plane down the lock panel, but that usually doesn't happen much any more, cause I eye ball it better than I used to. I also make sure that the lock panel is square to the barrel before I inlet the plate...makes it easier.
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J Shingler
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 10:48:00 PM »

Inlet the plate fully or you are going to go back and reinlet every part .030 deeper after you think you are finished. You will have the outside lock panel all shaped and then realize you forgot to final inlet that plate. Go back and curse yourself for not doing it right the first time. Reinlet all the parts again and then sand the lock panel wood down to final depth and watch that lock panel grow! All your hard work was for nothing as now you have to cut the lock panels again.  Ask how I know ..... Embarrassed
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J Shingler
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tbailey
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2008, 09:41:48 AM »

GREAT INFORMATION ON LOCK INTLETING, I HAVE SOME TROUBLE DOING IT ALSO. I WILL HAVE GAPS AROUND THE LOCK,  ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW,  DOSE EVERYONE ALWAYS FILE A DRAFT ON THE LOCK.
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Acer Saccharum
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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2008, 10:31:41 AM »



I do as Taylor does. Inlet the lock right down to the barrel. You can file the bolster a little to get a perfect fit, or file the barrel flat a little. A tight fit between barrel and lock keeps water from entering the lock cavity. A little dab of grease on the lock bolster before final assembly seals the joint.

Once the lockplate is down in place, mark the holes for the bridle through the lockplate with a pencil or a tight fitting drill. Then pull the lockplate and locate the bridle over your marked hole locations, trace the outside of it with a pencil. Drill holes in the wood within the borders of the bridle, but just shy of full depth. put a depth stop on the drill bit, or wrap the bit with a piece of masking tape as a depth gage. Then chip out the cavity and start fitting the bridle completely, screwheads and all.
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Jim Filipski
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 11:06:40 AM »

GREAT INFORMATION ON LOCK INTLETING, I HAVE SOME TROUBLE DOING IT ALSO. I WILL HAVE GAPS AROUND THE LOCK,  ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW,  DOSE EVERYONE ALWAYS FILE A DRAFT ON THE LOCK.

Tbailey,
Are you referring to a slight draft filed on the bolster ( to throw the tail of the lock out). I have only done this a few times when I had used straight sided oct.barrels. Also on two of my Northampton guns ( with swamps) to get the wider wrist width usually seen on that type of rifle. Other then that I won't because the swamp barrel has the angle already.

But I do lay the lock plate on it's bolster (after it is stripped of the guts) on a large machinist parallel and eye ball it to make sure it is parallel to the plate itself.
More often then not ( especially recently on a number of different brands of locks I have noticed this) the bolster needs some filing because it may cause the lock plate to pitch backward (at the tail ) or inward or outward (at the bottom)This is an important thing to do before inleting a lock plate
If your lock panel is parallel with your side barrel flat it makes life easy to inlet the plate square to the barrel flat
Jim
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Roger Fisher
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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2008, 11:33:13 AM »

GREAT INFORMATION ON LOCK INTLETING, I HAVE SOME TROUBLE DOING IT ALSO. I WILL HAVE GAPS AROUND THE LOCK,  ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW,  DOSE EVERYONE ALWAYS FILE A DRAFT ON THE LOCK.
Assuming you mean a draft on the edge of the plate Its safe to answer yes to your question.  It makes for a gap less inletting job.  I can tell you also that if you go with a router to inlet the plate and end up tooooo wide at least somewhat, a matching sliver of matching stock wood glued in/on the edge of said inlet is a workable repair and difficult to spot.  Do not ask how I know this Roll Eyes
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tbailey
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2008, 12:00:24 PM »

thanks jim and acer for the info on the bolster i will keep that in my note book. sorry i did not say a draft on the lock plate,  thanks Rodger that answer my question.

 Tbailey
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chuck-ia
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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2008, 01:31:56 PM »

Thanks, I appreciate all the info. and pictures. chuck
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flehto
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2008, 02:39:57 PM »

"Go home" w/ the lockplate and as was said, you'll save a lot of time. Sorry to say, my inlets for the "guts" of a FL aren't as neat as those pictured....nothing wrong w/ doing it  so neatly, but early on in my tool and diemaker apprenticeship, I was told to not make "jewelery "  on stuff that doesn't effect the function and doesn't show.  On every LR I make I wish my hidden lock inlets were neater, but old habits are hard to part with....Fred
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Roger Fisher
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2008, 10:43:57 AM »

"Go home" w/ the lockplate and as was said, you'll save a lot of time. Sorry to say, my inlets for the "guts" of a FL aren't as neat as those pictured....nothing wrong w/ doing it  so neatly, but early on in my tool and diemaker apprenticeship, I was told to not make "jewelery "  on stuff that doesn't effect the function and doesn't show.  On every LR I make I wish my hidden lock inlets were neater, but old habits are hard to part with....Fred
  a word or two on that! In a workman like manner is for the builder that is turning out more than a few rifles or guns!  The builder/stocker that is doing a few or maybe for himself or friends only should really take the time to neatly cut and scrape the innards of that mortise.  It will be noticed every time the shooter/owner pulls that lock which really should occur frequently!

I at one time bought a backup rifle that was obviously built by two different hands.  Finish work fine; but the lock and trigger mortises were hogged out so bad I couldn't hack leaving them that way.  I cut and glued in several pieces of stock wood to clean it up and at the same time somewhat strengthen that lock mortise section of this heavy rifle (chunk gun)

If a builder signs the piece he darn well should clean up the mortise work! Roll Eyes
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Acer Saccharum
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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2008, 11:00:51 AM »

The neatness of the mortise has more to do with the school of gun building, I think, than of anything else.

On a lot of European work, especially English, you will find the mortise to be very clean and precise. American guns can run the gamut from neat to rough. It is seldom found on an American piece to be neatly inletted like the above pics.

I stick my neck out on that one...... but those are my impressions.

Tom
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T*O*F
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2008, 12:16:04 PM »

Quote
On a lot of European work, especially English, you will find the mortise to be very clean and precise. American guns can run the gamut from neat to rough. It is seldom found on an American piece to be neatly inletted like the above pics.
Beauty is only skin deep.  Quality reaches all the way to the innards.

I think it's a matter of pride in craftsmanship.  Anybody can hog out the innards with a router, but hide it with a cosmetic exterior.

BTW, in my picture everything was inlet with a 3/8" chisel, and 1/8" and  3/8" gouges and the screw head centers located with a pin drill.
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Stophel
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Chris Immel


« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2008, 12:52:56 PM »

I'm pretty neat with lock inletting, but golly, are you all cutting out your lock inlets with a milling machine?  I ain't that clean. 
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I'm sorry, I thought we were building flintlocks...not fiberglass stocked, tactical bolt action sniper rifles.
flehto
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2008, 01:04:47 PM »

Don't get me wrong....my inlets are far from being a "hack job", just aren't as neat as those pictured.  Usually when the lock is operated and no "blue" is found, I stop chiseling and de-fuzz the inlet.....Fred
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P.W.Berkuta
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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2008, 07:27:29 PM »

chuck-ia, I am going to back up here a bit and start with the stock - lock plate side. Measure the thickness of your lock (bolster & plate) then add 1/32" NO more even a little less. Remove excess wood from the lock side to this dimension - make it smooth, flat and parallel to the barrel. Inlet the lock plate with the bolster until the bolster contacts flush with the barrel. If you try to inlet the lock down through a bunch of waste wood you will end up with a large gap around your lock plate Shocked - it might start out as "zero" gap but the deeper you inlet the lock plate the gap WILL get bigger Cry. This is done with other items as well - and remember to file a small "draft" on the inletted parts. Hope this helps Wink.
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heelerau
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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2012, 02:00:42 PM »

I have a Missouri style iron mounted full stock rifle,.50 which was built by a hobby builder 30 years ago It has an
Australian blackwood stock.  It is finished quite well, but the lock mortice is hogged out. I have often thought to see if I could do something with it. The lock plate is fitted quite well, but it has no support around the lock internals.  Can someone here please give me an idea as to how to fix it. The rifle in its present state is a real tack driver and ignition reliable. Just annoys me when on rare occasion I pull the lock off to oil it.

Regards

Gordon
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bob in the woods
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« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2012, 03:12:01 PM »

This may come as a dumb question, but......why do the internals require support ?  If the plate is well fitted, and supported, the bolster rests against the barrel....the rest to my way of thinking is cosmetic?Huh
I know that when I inlet a lock, I'm not crazy about mirror inlets etc 'cause in hunting conditions here, tight fits can interfer with lock function. I mean, I try to do a good job, and leave as much wood as possible, but I don't get mental about it  . If your gun functions well now, I'd leave it alone .
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Acer Saccharum
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« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2012, 03:37:46 PM »

There aren't many places on the internals that need support. SUpport will mean friction on any moving parts, so the only thing left is the bridle and its extension shoulder.  If the wood is too tight on the face of the bridle, it can cause friction on tumbler or sear.

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heelerau
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« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2012, 05:17:36 PM »

Thanks Gents,
                      Bob, reckon I will follow your advice and leave sleeping dogs and not touch the mortise.

Cheers

Gordon
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Meteor Man
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« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2012, 07:51:43 PM »

This is before final scraping off of the fuzzies, but this is pretty much it for me.
/mm
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