Author Topic: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative  (Read 2651 times)

Online rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12443
Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« on: April 01, 2019, 03:06:41 AM »
I had some around for the chain saw.  Itís green but seems to work great in the damp Midwest. I know itís probably better to buy something more specific.  I like the handiness of the little containers too.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline stikshooter

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2019, 05:08:50 AM »
Save the synthetic for chainsaws ,Ballistol for guns if that"s the application (wood friendly)

Online rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2019, 05:33:49 AM »
Tried Ballistol to prevent bore rust. Didnít work for me as well as Iíd heard or hoped in my basement.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9765
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 04:50:11 PM »
I'm using synthetic 5W-20 now. Beats the heck out of ballistol if keeping rust free is your goal.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1780
  • Colorado
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 05:08:43 PM »
Pete

Online rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 05:37:28 PM »
I wouldn't say Ballistol doesn't work.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html

I can only report my experience. I didnít say it doesnít work for anybody else. Rust stained patches are not my hoped-for result after wiping with an oil or rust preventive and thatís what I got using Ballistol. Might have something to do with wrought iron original barrels for all I know.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2526
    • Site
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 05:39:56 PM »
I'm using synthetic for pretty much everything now too - flintlock to black rifles.  Amsoil or Mobil 1, it works, it doesn't seem to deteriorate, it seems to just keep on lubricating pretty much forever (even when gunked up with DI blowback) and nothing rusts (and I am SUPER lazy when it comes to cleaning).  The only other stuff that seems to work just about as well is CLP, which I also use a lot if something much thinner than synthetic oil is desired.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9765
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2019, 05:50:03 PM »
I wouldn't say Ballistol doesn't work.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html

I can only report my experience. I didnít say it doesnít work for anybody else. Rust stained patches are not my hoped-for result after wiping with an oil or rust preventive and thatís what I got using Ballistol. Might have something to do with wrought iron original barrels for all I know.
Ditto. I used ballistol for a few years but was unimpressed with the orange patches I pulled when I dried the barrel out before a shooting session. I don't get that anymore now.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline fishdfly

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2019, 06:04:45 PM »
"I'm using synthetic for pretty much everything now too - flintlock to black rifles.  Amsoil or Mobil 1".

Interesting I just found a case of Mobil 1 in the barn, it is a least 23 years old.  Will give it a try.

I have a friend who mixes Mobil 1 and WD-40 in equal parts as a patch lube. 

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1780
  • Colorado
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2019, 06:15:13 PM »
Are you guys getting the rust on the outside of the barrel or the bore?

One thing I have noticed about using Ballistol in the bore. Even when you think the bore is clean. If you use Ballistol in the bore to prevent rust it keeps on working as a cleaner. It's not just a mineral oil but has acid too. So, after a while when you check the bore you put out more fouling and it does have a rust look to it.

I'm cleaning out a bore for a new GPR. I get clean patches when using a carb cleaner. If I then follow up with Ballistol I pull up more factory oil. It has a rusty look to it.

The Germans came up with Ballistol and used it on the military guns in WW1 and WW2. I can't believe they would use it if it caused rust.

Ballistol also does well in shootouts. I have to wonder if what we're seeing coming from the bore is really rust?
Pete

Offline Dennis Glazener

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14862
  • 2005 Transylvania County NC Heritage Day Event
    • GillespieRifles
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2019, 06:24:48 PM »
I have noticed the same rust color but I do not think its rust. It seems to me that someone her on ALR explained why it was but I can not remember, getting too much knowledge in my old brain, some of it is beginning to leak out :'(.

I notice the same thing using original Lehigh Valley lube.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline smokinbuck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2586
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2019, 06:44:07 PM »
I've used Mobil 1 for more than 20 years and have never looked back. Inside and out, it works and doesn't deteriorate over time.
Mark
Mark

Offline MuskratMike

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2019, 07:30:31 PM »
Is this a Ballistol vs 2 stroke synthetic oil post?
Seriously? Neither is the answer.
After thoroughly cleaning the barrel and letting it dry. Run a patch with light gun or or WD-40 down the barrel. No other stuff needed. People way overthink this simple sport.
Oh by the way this is just my humble opinion.
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Online Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6641
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2019, 07:34:16 PM »
Taylor and big Ron here had similar experiences with using straight Ballistol inside and out. 

Both guys had rust, inside and out come the next morning. Granted it was fairly humid in both instances.

Considering Ballistol will mix with water, ie: is water soluble, how can it prevent rust?

Dphar alluded to this FACT in a similar discussion here - same subject, years ago.

I would prefer to use an oil that will not mix with water, in fact repels it. Ballistol does not nor will not repel water, imho.

Yes I know guys use it - I will not.  I use water displacing or repelling oils. I have never rusted a barrel.  Both Taylor and

Ron had never either, until they tried Ballistol.

I saw what came out of Ron's barrel and it certainly appeared to be rust to me, no different than many ML's that come into Taylor's shop - pitted bores and rust.

After drying my bore and outside of the barrel after cleaning, I flush the bore with WD40 then patch that, blasting WD40 out the vent or nipple seat (barrels off the gun), then wipe

down the outside and reassemble. I have never rusted the outside nor the inside. I do the same with the locks- hose them off with WD40 after drying- shake of blow off the excess and reinstall.

The moly grease I put in the internals stays for almost a year, likely 20 cleanings, sometimes more, then gets replaced.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 07:37:47 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mike from OK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2019, 08:37:38 PM »
After a shooting session I clean and swab the bore dry. Then run a CLP wetted patch down the bore and store the rifle in the barrel down position.

Before I leave the house to shoot again I run a patch wetted with 91% isopropyl alcohol down the barrel to remove the CLP residue.

It's a simple operation, and thus far has been effective.

I can't comment on Ballistol as I have never used it. It just isn't widely available here like CLP is.

In my own experience the best rust preventative is regular shooting and cleaning of the firearm. It prevents rust from forming on the gun... And the shooter's skills.

Mike

Offline Roger B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1365
  • You wouldn't have a snack, would you?
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2019, 09:00:10 PM »
I use RIG right after cleaning and long term storage and never get rust.  I do have to "dump" my first shot though in some of my rifles. 
Roger B
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1780
  • Colorado
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2019, 09:11:20 PM »
In 1985, for example, a bottle of Ballistol was found in an attic where it had been left for over 60 years.  The oil had not hardened and a chemical analysis revealed that it still had the same degree of purity as freshly produced Ballistol.

Furthermore, after WW2, the Klever Company (makers of Ballistol) conducted a long-term test.  Several rifles and shotguns were treated with Ballistol, wrapped in wax-impregnated paper, and stored in a trunk. After 25 years, the trunk was opened and the firearms inspected.  All weapons had remained completely rust-free on both the inside and outside, and no resinification of Ballistol had occurred.  After pulling a dry cotton patch through the barrels, several rounds were fired from the weapons without malfunction.
Pete

Offline Dennis Glazener

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14862
  • 2005 Transylvania County NC Heritage Day Event
    • GillespieRifles
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2019, 09:28:58 PM »
Is this a Ballistol vs 2 stroke synthetic oil post?
Seriously? Neither is the answer.
After thoroughly cleaning the barrel and letting it dry. Run a patch with light gun or or WD-40 down the barrel. No other stuff needed. People way overthink this simple sport.
Oh by the way this is just my humble opinion.
I use WD40 through my barrels to makes sure all water moisture is gone but never have trusted it for long term storage since I had some fine rust on a gun that I wiped down with a cotton cloth with WD40 sprayed on it.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9765
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2019, 09:46:09 PM »
In 1985, for example, a bottle of Ballistol was found in an attic where it had been left for over 60 years.  The oil had not hardened and a chemical analysis revealed that it still had the same degree of purity as freshly produced Ballistol.

Furthermore, after WW2, the Klever Company (makers of Ballistol) conducted a long-term test.  Several rifles and shotguns were treated with Ballistol, wrapped in wax-impregnated paper, and stored in a trunk. After 25 years, the trunk was opened and the firearms inspected.  All weapons had remained completely rust-free on both the inside and outside, and no resinification of Ballistol had occurred.  After pulling a dry cotton patch through the barrels, several rounds were fired from the weapons without malfunction.
I'm not going to dispute what you're saying BUT..... All of my C&B revolvers were liberally lubed inside and out with Ballistol, cylinder pin, internals, bore and outside surfaces. I haven't shot them in several years. A short while ago I came across them and they barely function. No rust, but the cylinders will barely rotate and the sears are hesitant to engage. The Ballistol is all gummed up. I'll have to strip them and clean them before they are functional again.
 I used to treat them with Ballistol when actively cowboy shooting the same way I have them stored now. I was shooting three weekends a month so they didn't sit long between using. They functioned fine then. The only draw back for me when I was shooting them was they got slimy and hard to hand onto in the rain.
 Why my Ballistol gummed up my revolvers I don't know.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1780
  • Colorado
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2019, 10:02:11 PM »
I used to shoot CAS too. Ballistol is pretty popular with that crowd as you know. I don't know why it gummed up on you? It never has for me but I don't have long spells of not shooting. At least you didn't get rust.
Pete

Offline stude283

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2019, 10:39:09 PM »
.The following is the response from Patric Polumbo of Ballistol USA.


Ballistol is not water soluble, Ballistol emulsifies with water. This means that Ballistol maintains its properties in the presence of water; water soluble would change the properties of the product. Ballistol will continue to prevent rust in the presence of water at only 5% Ballistol / water. When Ballistol is emulsified with water, and the moisture evaporates, Ballistol is left on the surface. Itís a simple test, stick a nail in a cup of water, stick another nail in a cup of 5% Ballistol / water. The nail in 5% Ballistol will not rust.

If you are seeing rust after cleaning with Ballistol, the firearm was not properly cleaned. Ballistol needs to be emulsified with water 25% Ballistol / 75% water to properly neutralize and flush the black powder residue. Once the firearm has been thoroughly flushed, go back over the entire firearm with straight Ballistol.

I have seen Ballistol turn every color of the rainbow after sitting for extended periods of time. The product continues to clean even when left in the barrel or on the surface to protect. After sitting in a barrel that shoots modern ammo, my patches generally are green or green/blue. In my black powder firearms, they are almost always brown, reddish/brown. I have never seen rust in a barrel that was coated with Ballistol. No matter how well we think we clean our firearms, Ballistol always seems to find some junk left behind. What appears to be rust is usually residue left in the barrel that the Ballistol found and neutralized. There is even a good chance the Ballistol is removing thin layers of old oxidation from the firearm not being properly cleaned prior to the use of Ballistol.

We have had no reported cases of Ballistol causing firearms to rust.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best regards,

Patrick Palumbo
Washington Trading Co, Inc
BALLISTOL USA

Offline Don Steele

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2019, 11:51:51 AM »
What is special about Synthetic two-cycle oil vs. any other motor oil for the same application(s) in BP shooting..??
Trying to learn here...I have an unopened gallon of synthetic 5/30 motor oil that I no longer have any targeted use for. Got rid of the vehicle I bought it for, and it just takes up space in the garage now.
Thanks.
Look at the world with a smilin' eye and laugh at the devil as his train rolls by...(Alison Krauss)

Online rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2019, 04:52:21 PM »
Iím no petrol chemist. I heard some folks were using Mobil One. Noticed my chain saw 2 cycle oil is synthetic. Tried it and liked it. Iím guessing that it has stabilizers and rust inhibitors and such. Long live whatever works for each and every one of us!
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1780
  • Colorado
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2019, 05:42:00 PM »
I use Mobil One for the lock and trigger but that's all. I use it in my Jeep and filled a pen oiler for anything that needs oil. It doesn't harden up in cold weather.

I have better stuff for rust protection.
Pete

Offline JPK

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Using synthetic 2 cycle oil as rust preventative
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2019, 11:25:34 PM »
Since Ballistol has been brought up here's my experience with it. After reading a few different forums I got some to try. It didn't seem to make a difference in my rifle as far as shooting. I clean a bit the range and then a though cleaning at home with plenty of water as I have for many years. Soon I found that disconcerting red on my patches. No amount of oiling or scrubbing would get it to stop. Having quit using it for over a year I still get color but reading this tread I thought I'd give it a chance to lift the mystery deposits out of the bore. Several wiping and oiling with Ballistol over two days these are my last two tight patches. Can I expect the color to decrease?
IMG_0411 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.