Author Topic: SWAGED VS CAST ROUNDBALLS (Read 6362 times)

KILTED COWBOY · « **on:** April 03, 2019, 11:06:10 PM »

Once again newbie question.
Are swaged lead balls worth the extra cost ?
I have read up on what they are as i had no idea before research.
Is it just personal preference ?
or is it like modern ammo where you have cheap range ammo to practice
and use the good stuff for SD and competition or hunting.

Fyrstyk · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2019, 11:41:41 PM »

I used swaged balls for years, but as I got more into black powder shooting I found that making my own projectiles added to the experience. I truly enjoy casting balls for all of my different caliber guns. It is part of the basic skills used by our ancestors. Now if only I could learn to knap flints, then I would really be getting somewhere.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2019, 11:45:15 PM »

I have used both but prefer my own cast balls as I can get a more consistent weight. I have had up to an 8+ grain difference on some swagged 570 round balls. JMHO

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #3 on:** April 03, 2019, 11:46:20 PM »

Since my time is worth $35/hr I find swaged balls to be an incredible deal.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #4 on:** April 03, 2019, 11:50:13 PM »

You'll find swaged balls aren't consistent in weight. Which could give a flyer.

I buy cast balls now and then run pretty true and are cheaper.

snapper · « **Reply #5 on:** April 03, 2019, 11:55:46 PM »

I have shot mostly swaged balls. For me I really dont like to cast and I cast a lot of conicals for long range shooting.

I have never weighted round balls swaged or cast. So I can only take peoples word that there can be a big swing in weights.

I have won quite a few contest shooting swaged round balls, perhaps I would do even better if I cast and weight them.

Fleener

Stoner creek · « **Reply #6 on:** April 03, 2019, 11:58:05 PM »

Offhand shooting- accuracy won’t matter that much for most of us. I’ve been shooting offhand for 40 years and swaged/ unswaged is not a factor. Ball weight is. If you’re shooting bench, chunk, or table you can make a case for swaged balls.
Or, like Mike says “ Is it worth what you make per hour?”

Semisane · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2019, 12:41:57 AM »

What you make per hour is immaterial when it comes to spending and hour or two in the evening at home casting balls. At least you're getting some value when casting balls, as opposed to rotting your brain watching TV.

I have done the weighing thing for swaged vs. cast on a number of occasions. In every case my cast balls were way more consistent in weight when compared to out of the box swaged.

MuskratMike · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2019, 12:44:54 AM »

Swaged balls work for me. I buy them from distributors 1000 at a time for each caliber. Coming sealed in boxes they don't turn white, and buying local and in bulk keeps the price in check. Compared to the cost, mess and time it takes to cast I gave it long ago.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2019, 02:27:55 AM »

Well, if you don't care about the weight of swaged balls. Cast balls are cheaper. Most will care about that.

http://www.octobercountry.com/cast-round-balls-45-to-8-bore/

JamesT · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2019, 03:34:48 AM »

If you decide to cast balls you can weigh them into groups. Your "A"'s for hunting/ competition and the"B"'S for range time and plinking. Even add a "C" group if you wanna be a little obsessive. If you cast your own and weigh them at least ya know what you've got. But I suppose you could weigh the swaged ones as well. Most of all her fun.
James

Daryl · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2019, 04:12:29 AM »

In the old .45, my .36 and nor a .50, I shoot 'some' swaged balls when I don't feel like casting - especially in the winter time as i cast out doors.
I have a few .690" commercial cast balls to try in my .69. I bought them to try in 12bore P-wads, but I figure they'll likely shoot just fine with
an 8oz denim patch - about .018" in my .69.

Cast balls for me, have ALWAYS been more accurate than swaged in any of my guns. This usually shows up when deliberately shooting groups at 50yards. At 25 yards, there is little or no difference,
just a slightly oblong hole for 5 shots with either.

Mauser06 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2019, 07:41:41 AM »

Anyone ever notice a difference in performance on game? Deer or larger?

I found writing a long time back that swaged balls are more "brittle" due to how they are formed and are more subject to fragmenting and such where as a pure cast ball will usually flatten out....

I've recovered pieces of a swaged .490 ball and it was in pieces...large grain structure to it. One large piece and a few small chunks.

Definitely different than what you see from cast balls... atleast pics I've seen posted of recovered cast balls.

Wonder what one would penetrate better?

Curious to see if anyone has any input or know of anyone that's compared the 2 ball constructions.

I don't shoot enough to really justify casting...don't have a pot..don't have molds..don't have clean pure lead. I might eventually start...I shoot a bit..but mostly I'm a hunter. I shoot more than enough to stay accurate but like Mike said, between the startup cost and time, I've just been buying what I need. Though it'd be nice to be self sufficient... especially with lead getting tougher to come by. I just don't have time for another hobby lol. I rather spend time at the stocking bench than playing with molten metal lol.

JohnnyFM · « **Reply #13 on:** April 04, 2019, 09:37:43 AM »

I have shot both, swaged and cast, and have come to prefer cast. I buy commercial cast and they are cheaper than swaged and come in a wider variety of calibers. For example, shooting a pseudo .54 cal rifle, all I could find in swaged was .530 and .535– in cast I can easily find .520 , .526 , .530 and .535.
Btw, my one particular rifle prefers the .520 (which really makes it a .53 cal)

There’s something to the argument in re work hardened lead balls. I nave noticed swaged lead tends to fragment more than cast. Cast seems to hold together more on expansion based on my casual range work where I have recovered projectiles. I have not recovered any round balls from deer carcasses because all kills have been pass - throughs so far. And it’s moot because I stopped using swaged anyway. I can attest that exit holes have consistently been noticeably larger than entry and no projectile fragments themselves nor evidence of such fragmentation was ever observed.

Of course, other’s mileage may vary.

Darkhorse · « **Reply #14 on:** April 04, 2019, 10:14:54 AM »

I cast my own round balls for years until I loaned out my casting gear and it never found it's way home. After that I shot swaged balls. I think the soft cast lead balls are better for hunting thin skinned game like deer because they will flatten out, or expand, and cause more tissue damage. I've never seen the damage from a swaged ball to equal a soft cast ball. But I do think the swaged ball will penetrate deeper.
I weighed almost all my cast balls and won a lot of matches. I never weigh a swaged ball but still take a lot of game and won matches. My rifles will shoot swaged balls into a single ragged hole at 50 yards and I've never seen evidence of a flyer.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #15 on:** April 04, 2019, 01:40:22 PM »

Quote from: Semisane on April 04, 2019, 12:41:57 AM

What you make per hour is immaterial when it comes to spending and hour or two in the evening at home casting balls. At least you're getting some value when casting balls, as opposed to rotting your brain watching TV.

I have done the weighing thing for swaged vs. cast on a number of occasions. In every case my cast balls were way more consistent in weight when compared to out of the box swaged.

If I' going to come back and spend another "hour or two" in my shop in the evening I'd just as soon get paid for it.
And, with the cost of the pot and the mold you're going to have to cast a lot of ball to justify the initial investment. Molds are expensive these days. I do have all the casting equipment and do cast on occasion for a 32-40 schuetzen rifle. It's the only way I can get projectiles for that gun. I even have to buy the lead alloy for that one....certainly not a cheap gun to shoot, but you can cover a 10 shot group with a half dollar at 100 yards,.
AND most importantly, casting ball is incredibly BORING.

JohnnyFM · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2019, 02:48:13 PM »

AND most importantly, casting ball is incredibly BORING.
[/quote]

Chop wood. Fetch water
It’s zen Mike. Casting balls is zen-like

My reality, like really..., I found it much cheaper and easier to buy cast balls though I do need to get in touch with Larry Callahan for one of his bag molds. It seems appealing to “live the dream” of casting round ball out of the pouch, buckskin n linen clad, around an open fire...

Then I wake up...

alacran · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2019, 03:33:54 PM »

Only time I've been concerned with consistency of ball weight, was when I concentrated on shooting cross stick matches. I have shot both cast and swaged balls in those matches. I was careful to weigh all the match balls regardless wether they were cast or swaged.
the performance of either type of ball was not discernible.
As far as performance on game, I've recovered balls from two elk which were quartering shots. Both had gone through bone . I weighed them both and they had retained 100 % of their original weight. I use swaged balls when hunting.
I've never recovered balls from deer.

Fyrstyk · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2019, 03:36:58 PM »

Mike, obviously your time is money. For me, being retired, I am willing to spend the time to save money as I am on a fixed income. I obtain my lead for free from the many roofers, and a few plumbers, I know. The cost of a melting po and dipper can be relatively cheap if you check on flea-bay. Molds can also be found on flea-bay. I spend about 3-4 hours per casting time, and I only cast for one caliber at a time. I enjoy the time spent making my own projectiles. Hope you will appreciate the time spent in the future.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #19 on:** April 04, 2019, 05:04:18 PM »

Quote

Hope you will appreciate the time spent in the future.

The casting I plan in the future will be from a boat, not from the bench.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #20 on:** April 04, 2019, 05:19:53 PM »

Casting is similar to tying flies for fly fishing. They're separate hobbies and don't need to be done unless you want to.

It never appealed to me. I get bored with too much repetition.

Fyrstyk · « **Reply #21 on:** April 04, 2019, 05:54:36 PM »

Good for you Mike. At least you have your priorities straight. I'm still working on mine.

Daryl · « **Reply #22 on:** April 04, 2019, 07:36:04 PM »

Quote from: Mike Brooks on April 04, 2019, 05:04:18 PM

Quote
Hope you will appreciate the time spent in the future.
The casting I plan in the future will be from a boat, not from the bench.

Won't be long now - there's almost 4' of open water on the South Exposure of the lake. Of course, there's 4' of ice on the rest of the lake.
Got another 4 (maybe 6) dozen flies tied for the coming season.

Mike from OK · « **Reply #23 on:** April 08, 2019, 03:57:07 AM »

I received one of Larry Callahan's molds earlier this week. He makes a fine mold and I enjoyed casting with it.

There is nothing magical about casting round ball... Then again there is nothing magical about plunking down cash for a box of Hornady's either.

I do both depending on whatever mood I'm in. I probably have a couple thousand balls in the shiny red boxes and much more than that in ingots and balls I've already cast.

Do what makes you happy or whatever makes your gun happy.

Mike

Dphariss · « **Reply #24 on:** April 08, 2019, 10:17:16 PM »

Speer balls are rounder than Hornady.
I shoot both.
If you are having problems with the balls fragmenting they are two things. Bones can shear them or they are not pure lead. But harder lead usually just punches through. I very seldom find a ball in a deer. I have never had one do that that I recall... I went back to swaged when I started damaging some steel targets with cast balls that were a little harder than pure lead. What was in them I dunno.

Dan

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Author Topic: SWAGED VS CAST ROUNDBALLS (Read 6362 times)

KILTED COWBOY