Author Topic: Help identifying rifle please  (Read 2152 times)

Turtle

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Help identifying rifle please
« on: April 15, 2019, 03:08:12 PM »
 Hi,I'm usually on the building or shooting page, but a friend gave me a rifle to look at and I realized it is probably an original. It is a fullstock,39 1/2" over 1" across the flats browned barrel. 42 1/2 cal,Barrel rifling has extremly deep narrow grouves(.030). The lock plate is stamped  R Kingsland Co  warranted and has a roller frizzen spring and mainspring. it has a straight comb fullstock of nice tiger maple with noce patchbox. All brass furniture.  No marks or names anywhere,but real nice workmanship. I will try to post pictures when I figger out how. Any feedback would be appreciated.
                                                                          Thanks,Turtle

Turtle

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Re: Help identifying rifle please
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 03:13:46 PM »









« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 08:47:35 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Help identifying rifle please
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 10:32:32 PM »
Can you post pictures of the moon inlay in the cheek, and also the washer on the lock bolt on the back side of the gun? Also would like to see a picture of the full patchbox cavity under the lid. These views would help identify the rifle.

The position of the rear sight, sitting several inches behind the rear ramrod pipe, suggests the barrel has been shortened about  4 inches at the breech end. I have some concern with the patchbox as a possible recent addition to the rifle. The engraving looks like a modern, self-taught attempt to engrave the box, and the protruding tab at the butt plate is odd. Can you open the lid and take a picture of the inside cavity of the patchbox, so we can see how it is made and how old/new it looks? Can you tell if the screw heads in the patchbox have a flat bottom slot (machine cut), or a "V" shaped slot (chisel cut)?

The lock looks great and from what we can see, fits the side facing well...but it seems a little odd to see a flintlock with a pointed tail ca. 1815 on a rifle with a single lock bolt, particularly if an eastern rifle. Can you tell if the flash hole is original, or if it is lined or rewelded? Is the single trigger made of iron, or possibly brass?

My first impression of the rifle, based heavily on the single trigger, the guard's arched grip rail that almost touches the stock wood, and the rather heavy and long cheekpiece, is that the gun may be from New York.  Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 04:29:51 AM by Tanselman »

Turtle

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Re: Help identifying rifle please
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2019, 10:44:36 PM »









Turtle

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Re: Help identifying rifle please
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2019, 10:53:15 PM »
 The touch hole appears to have no liner and to be a hole in the original barrel. The patchbox screws are countersunk. Is the lock and barrel original?- I mean not modern 20th century? One suspicious thing is the the lockplate has a plugged front lockbolt hole, but the stock has no evidence of having a front bolt. Could this gun have been made from original parts? if so when? thanks so much for the info.
                                       Turtle

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Help identifying rifle please
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2019, 07:05:39 AM »
Your rifle is original, including stock, barrel and hardware. It's hard to date it without seeing how thin the butt is, and the box style, if original, would appear to be a later box probably from the percussion era...despite having the original flint lock in the gun. After seeing the lock bolt washer, cheek inlay and wrist inlay, they have no engraving, but there are three small punch marks on either side of the lock bolt head, which are somewhat similar to the punch marks used to decorate around the screw heads in the patchbox...so maybe the gunsmith never learned how to engrave, and did punched decoration to "kind of" look like engraved designs.

The large tab on the butt end of the box lid still looks odd, but the cavity inside the box looks good, so the box is probably original to the rifle. I still can't tell if the screws attaching the patchbox have modern machine cut slots with parallel sides/walls and a flat bottom, or if they are old screw heads with a "V" shaped  slot from being formed by a chisel cut. I would have thought, from the patchbox and general appearance of the rifle, that it was a ca. 1840 percussion gun. But the original flintlock in the gun looks good, with good wood margins around it suggesting it may be original to the gun. Makes me think perhaps it's a percussion era rifle [as the butt curvature suggests] where the owner preferred to have it made as a late flint gun for personal reasons....but the lock style looks like an older ca. 1815 lock was used on an 1835-1840 rifle. Kind of a "mixed up" rifle in some respects. Hopefully some others will have ideas about this rifle, or see something I've missed. Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 11:26:16 PM by Tanselman »

Turtle

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Re: Help identifying rifle please
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2019, 01:29:18 PM »
 OK thanks. I misunderstood your question on the patch box screws. Their slots are defiantly tapered top to bottom.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Help identifying rifle please
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2019, 03:37:37 PM »
It’s hard to tell but it looks like someone did the old shellac everything job  over the inlays. Shelby’s assessment is right on. Nice find.   Any initials on the barrel?
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Turtle

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Re: Help identifying rifle please
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2019, 01:09:02 AM »
no-no initials or ID anywhere