Author Topic: Considering a double rifle  (Read 1089 times)

Offline Dowrat

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Considering a double rifle
« on: June 05, 2019, 11:50:45 PM »
Lately, I've been thinking about buying, or building, a double barrel rifle. I've read that they can be particular about loads and can be hard to get regulated so both barrels shoot to the same POA. I don't want to buy someone else's problem gun. However...they are so cool that I still want one! If I could find a set of proven barrels I might even consider building one. (Please talk me out of it.  :-\) You guys have experience, so what are the pros and cons of double rifles? I'm thinking of a .50 or .54 caliber.  Thanks for any responses.

Offline mark brier

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 12:43:40 AM »
A double rifle is as good or as bad as the ability of the person who made it and especially in the large amount of time spent shooting and regulating. A proper made double is a working wonder and real piece of beauty to behold. What you have is two individual rifles in one piece and there is no quicker way to get a second follow up shot than a double, important in the dangerous game world. A very knowledgeable and working understanding of what a double is and what it is suppose to do, as far as building one is concerned, and still may leave bitter disappointment in the end. High end English guns you need to remember were not made by one person but many. And each an expert in their part. One of the many big hurdles is architecture and just how small can you safely make it, otherwise you will end up with a extremely Large unwieldy rifle that looks a 1/4 mile wide. It also requires a lot of tooling and specialized tools at that that only have one purpose. I am not trying to spoil your plans at all but if you don't have experience with doubles or even shooting them you are biting off ten mountains worth of work. As far as regulating and joining properly that requires an extremely large amount of time and patience.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 12:47:58 AM by Tim Crosby »

Offline Fyrstyk

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2019, 01:04:58 AM »
Another consideration may be your ultimate use of the gun.  If you plan to hunt with it you best check out the regulations in your hunt area.  Many states specify "single barrel" muzzle loaders only.

Offline JTR

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2019, 01:06:35 AM »
You might consider a swivel breech rifle.
With sights on both barrels, no need to regulate.
John Robbins

Offline bama

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2019, 01:18:23 AM »
Ed Rayl will make the barrels, they are not cheap but will be regulated when you receive them. If you are serious call him and talk to him. He will put you on the waiting list.
Jim Parker

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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2019, 01:41:28 AM »
Least expensive is to find a Kodiak rifle.  If you decide you donít like it you can get your money back.  If you like it you have one while you accumulate parts to build one.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Huntschool

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2019, 02:20:03 AM »
If it were me.....  I would start saving right now and peruse the English gun auctions for a Dbl made there in a caliber you want.   Bring your check book and even perhaps your black AmX card.....  But...  if in good shape the gun should shoot well.

There is nothing neater then a Damascus barreled percussion dbl rifle, perhaps a Dickson.....  Just sayin.....
Bruce A. Hering
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Offline Dowrat

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2019, 02:49:36 AM »
Thanks to all for the replies. All good suggestions. I'm mostly a hunter and yes, a double rifle is legal for both the regular deer season and the muzzle loader season in my state (Michigan).I have built a 12 gauge flintlock double barrel shotgun on a set of original Damascus barrels and yes, it was "ten mountains of work". A real learning experience for me to say the least. But, I finished it, I hunt with it , and I like it. However, I wouldn't even attempt to join two barrels together. Buying an original English double rifle would be awesome, but that is way above my pay grade! Maybe I better look for a Pedersoli.

Offline msellers

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2019, 03:18:38 AM »
Last time I was on his website Doc White has a few in the works rhat could be bought as a semi kit. Might be worth a look for your purpose.
Mike

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2019, 03:23:40 AM »
Double rifles gets you double everything. Twice as many sight problems, twice as many lock problems, and twice as many chances of shooting yourself while loading. Not for me, I have enough issues with one barrel, and lock.

  Hungry Horse

Offline rick/pa

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2019, 03:33:41 AM »
You might want to read William Brockway's book Recreating the Muzzle Loading Double Barrel Shotgun.  Many of the procedures are similar to building a rifle and it might give you an idea about what you're getting into, especially when it comes to regulating the barrels and the architecture of the gun for either percussion or flintlock.

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 04:22:07 AM »
I have also seen a few original double rifles that had individual sights on each barrel. Eliminates the regulation issues but it seems like it would be difficult to line up the sights properly when shooting.

Dale H

Offline Dowrat

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 02:21:52 PM »


rich pierce - Yes sir, I know you are right. Thanks.
m sellers - I'll check that out. Thanks.
H H - Yes sir, double trouble for sure. LOL
rick/pa - I about wore out my copy of Brockway's book when I built this flintlock double barrel. You are right about what "you're getting into". But...what a journey!

Offline Robby

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2019, 03:26:42 PM »
My humble attempt at a double rifle. straight tapered .45 barrels. It was fun, frustrating and a learning experience ion many levels. It is regulated to fifty yards and though I found out later it is not legal to hunt with in New Yorkistan, it is still fun to shoot.
Robby






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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2019, 03:57:32 PM »
I have also seen a few original double rifles that had individual sights on each barrel. Eliminates the regulation issues but it seems like it would be difficult to line up the sights properly when shooting.

Dale H

Every double I've seen in the Warner Bros. cartoons--has double front sights--which I find hilarious. 

Because I'd never seen such on real gun. I think I'd laugh at a real gun too...  Good luck.  I slightly prefer the swivel breech for a two bbl system, but have gotten "over" that. 
Hold to the Wind

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2019, 03:59:06 PM »
Here in West Virginia they are or were not allowed in the ML hunting season.
I don't know if they are legal now or not. In 1987 our Supreme Court here threw
out an odius concealed carry law that was on the books since 1872.Maybe they
will help BP hunters as well.

Bob Roller

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2019, 04:15:12 PM »
 Not allowed in California, and several other western states either.

  hungry Horse

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2019, 04:45:25 PM »
Wade, sorry, no pictures for your amusement. This is what I was referring to:

Saw something at the Baltimore show yesterday that I have never seen before, and thought some of you may be interested.It was a side by side flintlock long rifle, one barrel rifled and the other smooth.The interesting thing was, the barrels were completely independent. They were not attached with a rib, they had separate breech plugs and tangs, and each barrel had its own set of sights. I asked the owner where it was made but he didn't know.A few minutes later, I mentioned this rifle to Don Stith at his table and he said Bedford County double rifles were made this way.Learn something new everyday.Dale H

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Dale H (Rodger Halterman) on 03/19/2006***

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2019, 04:50:53 PM »
I think there might be one of these in the Huntington Museum of Art.
SxS barrels,two tangs as well.I will make it a point to look for it the
next time I go there.
Bob Roller

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2019, 08:04:52 PM »
Quote
They were not attached with a rib, they had separate breech plugs and tangs, and each barrel had its own set of sights. I asked the owner where it was made but he didn't know.A few minutes later, I mentioned this rifle to Don Stith at his table and he said Bedford County double rifles were made this way
I am building one of those, except the barrels will have hooked breeches.  I am handing off my barrels to Curtis this weekend at Friendship and let him work his "file magic" hooking the breechplugs and making a matching standing breech and tang to fit them.
Dave Kanger

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2019, 10:03:20 PM »
Ever since reading Forsyth's little book, I've wanted a SxS 14 bore rifle. Friend of mine had 2 tapered round bls. made but I could not afford, at that time,
to purchase them from him. I do not think he ever built the DR with them - what a hunting rifle THAT would be.
The Kodiaks usually don't even shoot remotely together- especially with the slugs everyone seems to want to shoot in them.
They did or maybe still do make a .54 and perhaps a .50. This is likely the cheapest way of obtaining one, but how it shoots might be a $#@* shoot at best.
I lucked out with my .58 Kodiak.
100gr. 2F put the barrels together at 50 meters.  110gr. made then shoot parallel.
80 and 90gr. made them cross and shoot to different elevations.
120gr. made them cross again and reverse the elevation of impacts.
The bottom picture shows the hammer/nipple/fence relationship. Some are even worse than this.
The picture second up from the bottom shows the same 'shot' as modified by me to make the fences operational.





This is a 7 shot group at 50 yards with 100gr. 2F GOEX







After finding the 100gr. and 110gr. loads, I removed their EXTRA rear sight that you are supposed to sight in
for the 'bad' barrel.




Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Eterry

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2019, 10:29:43 PM »
I have also seen a few original double rifles that had individual sights on each barrel. Eliminates the regulation issues but it seems like it would be difficult to line up the sights properly when shooting.

Dale H

As far a British Nitro Double Rifles... I've been to the DSC convention every year since 2002, I've seen thousands and handled dozens of Bespoke double rifles. I don't ever recall seeing one with sights for each barrel.  The most common is a quarter rib with 1 standing and 2 folding leaves.
I understand getting them regulated takes considerable time/ effort and drives the price into the strastasphere.

Offline Shovelbuck

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2019, 10:40:16 PM »
I shoot 100 grains FFF and 460 grain Great Plains Bullets from my Kodiak .50 cal. That load has them just crossing at 75 yds. After a few seasons hunting with it like that, I resighted it to where the right barrel uses the front leaf sight at 50 yds. and I set the rear leaf for the left barrel at 100 yds.  Works great, and for the internet safety police, I've checked and rechecked while sighting this gun in through the years, and never have had a bullet come off the charge from the recoil.

Offline Sharpsman

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2019, 02:25:32 AM »
Double rifle aka Morphodyke!! :'( :(
"There ain't no freedom...without gunpowder!"

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Considering a double rifle
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2019, 06:09:42 PM »
Some time in the past there was a photo of a setup for breaching double barrels on a lathe.  Maybe it was Rolf who posted it.  I would like to see that again.
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