Author Topic: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?  (Read 1442 times)

Offline Marcruger

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Just curious, has anyone installed one of Chris Evrard's tuned conversions of the Chambers Colonial VA round faced lock into one of Jim's Colonial Rifle kits?  It seems like a natural pairing, so I was wondering if I am the only one to think about it. 

God Bless,   Marc

Offline smart dog

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2019, 02:30:42 AM »
Hi Marc,
Actually, it is not necessarily a natural pairng at all.  By the 1760s and 1770, only cheap English trade and livery guns had brideless round-faced locks.  An early gun attributed to Andreas Albrecht and another by Oerter have bridleless round-faced locks but several Oerters with similar locks have bridles and even the early Peter Berry in David Hansen's book has a bridle.  Remember, by the 1740s, even British muskets had bridled locks.

dave
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Online rich pierce

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2019, 03:50:05 AM »
Iíll use mine on an English trade gun.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 03:06:28 PM »
I bought one of Chris Evrand's locks. I really like it an think it would do fine in a Kibler kit as you suggest. I had Joe Schell put mine in a iron mounted woodsrunner rifle. Very smooth lock. Not the fastest lock but I think the thing would spark if you put a rubber flint in it an its without a doubt the easiest on flints that I have personally ever used. When a flints gets dull in my other locks I can put it in this Evrard lock an it keeps going for quite a few shots. With a new or fresh touched up flint it sparks like a welder
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning

Offline David Rase

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 03:52:46 PM »
I know of several builders who ordered locks from Chris for the sole purpose of installing them in their Kibler Colonial kits.  I would go for it.
David 

Offline Chris in Washington

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2019, 06:12:09 PM »
I picked up one of Chris Evrard lock to go in my Kibler kit.  It's still in the white, plan on finishing it later this summer after I take a carving class with Eric van Aschwege

Chris
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Offline Dave Patterson

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 07:08:20 PM »
I know of several builders who ordered locks from Chris for the sole purpose of installing them in their Kibler Colonial kits.  I would go for it.
David

That's precisely what I'm planning:  might not be H/C, but it's likely the best lock I'LL ever own, and with my (cough, cough) demonstrably (and, repeatedly proven) (!!) building skills, my best option for putting it to use.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2019, 10:40:42 PM »
I recall  reading that the development of the bridled lock set the development
of breech loaders back at least a century.Anyone know anything about this?

Bob Roller

Offline smart dog

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2019, 12:27:30 AM »
Hi Bob,
I do not know why that would be the case. Pan bridles were used beginning in the 17th century on breech loading turn-off pistols.  I am curious why folks are excited about putting bridleless locks on their Kibler rifles.  Is it because Chris does a great job fitting and tuning the locks and the lack of bridle is irrelevant or is there some notion that bridleless locks are more appropriate for Jim's gun.  What do folks think Jim's gun represents?  What time period?  What style or location?

dave
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2019, 03:16:54 PM »
Hi Bob,
I do not know why that would be the case. Pan bridles were used beginning in the 17th century on breech loading turn-off pistols.  I am curious why folks are excited about putting bridleless locks on their Kibler rifles.  Is it because Chris does a great job fitting and tuning the locks and the lack of bridle is irrelevant or is there some notion that bridleless locks are more appropriate for Jim's gun.  What do folks think Jim's gun represents?  What time period?  What style or location?

dave
I believe it's just something different is all. I believe they are probably correct for the Kibler gun, Kibler will have to tack the date he had in mind on it. Bridleless locks back in the day were cheap and this particular round faced English lock with out the exterior bridle more than likely would not have had an interior bridle either. This bridleless lock style was pretty cheap back then and surely ( I know, DON"T CALL ME SHIRLY! ;D) found it's way on American made rifles as long as they had a simple trigger.
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Online Pukka Bundook

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2019, 05:16:37 PM »
The only Chambers R-faced English lock I turned into a bridle-less pan style, was to fit to a copy of a Germanic rifle of the 1720's.
(Altered lock shape and cock breast as well )

Offline David Rase

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2019, 07:47:28 PM »
Hi Bob,
I do not know why that would be the case. Pan bridles were used beginning in the 17th century on breech loading turn-off pistols.  I am curious why folks are excited about putting bridleless locks on their Kibler rifles.  Is it because Chris does a great job fitting and tuning the locks and the lack of bridle is irrelevant or is there some notion that bridleless locks are more appropriate for Jim's gun.  What do folks think Jim's gun represents?  What time period?  What style or location?

dave
I believe it's just something different is all.
Nailed it!

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 12:56:53 AM »
"I believe it's just something different is all. "   Yep, I have to agree Mike (yet again). 

I certainly did not mean to start a furball with my question.  I do have one of Chris' locks put back, mainly because of the wonderful workmanship and unique nature.  Nope, no Kibler Colonial on order.  Just curious as to opinions, and I received some.  :-) 

Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

Offline mountainman70

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2019, 03:51:52 AM »
Just curious as to opinions, and I received some.  :-) 
Yep,Marc, you can get them here !!! Aint no shortage. Have a goodun everyone. Dave 8) 8)

Offline smart dog

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2019, 06:45:05 AM »
Hi Marc,
You did not raise any fuss.  I was just curious why folks like you or others think the bridleless lock is a "natural" for Jim's colonial rifle.  Other than Chris builds and tunes a nice lock, I suspected there was a notion that Jim's gun is "early" and therefore, an early bridleless lock was more appropriate.  I don't know how "early" folks think Jim's rifle represents but my point was that by the time rifle's like Jim's might have appeared (1760s-1770s?), round-faced English locks with no bridles were made for the cheapest livery and trade guns.  As I mentioned, even the Brown Bess musket had a bridled lock after the pattern 1742 was issued. There are a few surviving early long rifles with round-faced locks with no bridles but I would not expect the gunmaker to prefer a bridleless lock over one with a bridle unless he had no choice or was trying to cut costs.       

dave
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Evrard Bridleless Chambers Lock in Kibler Colonial Rifle Kit?
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 03:55:07 PM »
I am thinking in terms of the INSIDE bridle that stabilizes the mechanism.
The unbridled frizzen can be helped immensely by seating the pivot screw INTO
the lock plate by using a stub length thread.

Bob Roller