Author Topic: Hawken rifle exhibit  (Read 1977 times)

Offline mark brier

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Hawken rifle exhibit
« on: June 11, 2019, 04:07:57 AM »
Not sure where to post this so moderator please feel free to move. A few pictures from the Hawken Rifle exhibit from this past weekend at Friendship. Couldn't have asked for better. Had around 450 people come through between Saturday and Sunday and had 78 come for the seminar. For those that may not recognize them it is Art Russel and Greg Roberts from the Hawken Shop
Mark Brier




















Offline Clark B

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 07:01:53 AM »
I know that I really enjoyed the display.
Psalms 144

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 07:17:03 AM »
 :o :o :o... Thanx, Mark,... back about 40+ years ago a young Art Roesel  brought a display of 14 original Hawken Rifles to the  Tennessee State shoots at Camp Boxwell, outside Gallatin Tennessee.... to a then green kid, (me) I thought I was in heaven,... I already had "the bug", but seeing this display ruined me,... had to have one,... learned to appreciate other types of M/L guns (mostly Tennessee), but a Hawken rifle still rests in a special place in my memories,....Good to see pix of old Art,... He is owed a debt of gratitude for influencing many young pilgrims along the way,..... Thanx for this post,... !!!! ... regards, Cades Cove Fiddler,....   

Offline alacran

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2019, 02:23:38 PM »
I now know who you are since it seems you were there every time I went in to see the exhibit and the seminar.
 I thoroughly enjoyed the presentations and the conversation I had with Mr Russel and Greg Roberts. I was a little disappointed that there were not any original Hawkens there, but that only lasted about a minute. Next time I see you I will introduce myself.

Offline mark brier

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2019, 02:52:56 PM »
We tried and had them lined up to come and I am sorry that it didn't happen but the owners had life and health issues come up which is completely 200% understandable and if they happen to read this I again wish them the best and speedy recoveries. We have something very big in the works for some Hawken shoots that will take place in St. Louis, more details to come as they get ironed out.
Mark Brier

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 03:33:28 PM »
Thanks for all the work done for this display, wished I could have seen it in person. There looks like at least two flintlock guns in the display, can you tell us more about those guns? Thanks again.  :)

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 04:06:33 PM »
Thank you so much for posting the photos.
I am with the old grouch, Smylee - can you post more about the flint lock guns?  I am currently building a Hawken with a Late English L&R lock.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 03:53:07 PM »
I know that I really enjoyed the display.

We,Larry Vaden and myself looked at it Friday night.Fine display and I
don't remember Art REssell looking like that in 1972 ;D when Tom Dawson
and I saw him in St.Louis.We are ALL older now,some more than others
and some like Tom Dawson and John Baird are long gone.I have what is
the 4th copy of Hawken Rifles,the Mountain Man's Choice signed by John
in May,1968.It's still a great reference on these great rifles after 50 years.
Seeing Tom's daughter,Diana and meeting her her family was a real treat
and brought back a lot of memories including the St.Louis trip.
Here is a story involving Tom Dawson. The Wabash railroad cut thru
the middle of the Dawson farm and a train derailed on it and a freight car
fell off the rails and broke open. It was loaded with brand new Nicholson files
of every type and Tom promptly claimed salvage rights and I still have some
of those files and use them when needed.Another story Tom told me was about
an old woman that was accused of greasing or soaping the rails on that line.
It was due to an unsettled grievence about a cow that got on the tracks and was killed
by the train.It's an uphill pull thru the Dawson farm into Williamsport and the engines
they used were underpowered steamers that were on the verge of breaking traction
due to very heavy loads and someone greased the rails and the engine suddenly lost
traction and a violent wheel spin caused it to throw the drive rods to the wheels.
The old woman was accused of causing it but Tom was certain the old girl had no idea
as to how a steam locomotive worked and it still is a mystery.
I hope all who attended the Hawken Exhibition learned something about these rifles
and some of us who were involved in reviving them as a building project and an
historical relic.
Bob Roller

Offline mountainman70

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2019, 04:46:49 PM »
Thanks , Bob,for the back story. There always seems to be one, and not many know this one til now.
Mark, thanks for the pics and info. Wish I could have been there, too. Best regards, dave f 8) 8)

Offline mark brier

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 02:06:34 PM »
Smylee and Craig I will do my best to answer some this evening. It has been an absolute whirlwind week between 3 days at Friendship coming right home and cutting hay and our county fair trimming and hauling horse in it has been non stop and I'm seriously ready to rest.
Mark Brier

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2019, 08:37:50 AM »
Will there be a book or magazine article with pictures?

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2019, 01:17:22 AM »
 I guess I just didnít get the Hawken adoration gene. For me, going to a Hawken exhibit would be like going to an exhibit of claw hammers, or crowbars. To me its like raving about the ďclassic linesĒ of a plow horse.  You can pretty much count all the known fancy Hawken rifle on one hand, and the rest are plain wood, varnished stocked, working guns. Iím sorry, I donít get it.
 I have been shooting black powder guns for fifty years, and only owned one Hawken replica, which I only owned for a week. It was a .53 cal. Santa Fe Hawken, that shot really well. But, I wasnít attached to it, and a Hawken worshiper made me an offer on it, and I sold it.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2019, 01:31:44 AM »
So, Hungry Horse, you wouldn't mind if I decorated this Hawken I'm building?  It is not a replica of anything except a heavy-barreled half-stock rifle.  I probably shouldn't call it a "Hawken", except some of the steel furniture was made for them.

It has a 36" x 15/16" .50 cal Colerein barrel, which weighs 5 lb 3 oz.  A bit more than half sticks out of the wood.

Been thinking along the lines of a bit of wire inlay, maybe a fleur-de-lis carving or something.  The stock does have a small amount of curl here and there.  Just having fun building myself another hunting rifle.  Feel free to pass along decorating ideas.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2019, 01:55:30 AM »
To be honest Craig, I like the Tom Dawson approach better, where you add the primitive decorations a work horse of a rifle would naturally accumulate from time, and multi owners.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Clark B

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2019, 08:23:04 AM »
You can pretty much count all the known fancy Hawken rifle on one hand, and the rest are plain wood, varnished stocked, working guns. Iím sorry, I donít get it.

  Hungry Horse

Because in some instances plain can have a certain charm of it's own. The Hawken is not a beautiful rifle, but more a ruggedly handsome rifle.
Psalms 144

Offline rsells

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2019, 08:58:55 AM »
I am like Fiddler.  I was at the gathering a bit over 40 years back and was surprised to be able to handle an original half stock Hawken that Art had on display, and fell in love with a very fancy half stock rifle made using a set of Art's parts.  Up until that point in time, I only loved Southern mountain rifles.  I had an attraction to the mountain rifles because of being introduced to them when I was a teenager.  One of my teachers let his son and I shoot one of his originals, and I was hooked.  However, the Hawken rifle has had a special place in my heart since that point in time.  I have two loves in muzzle loading rifles that I can't shake.  One is TN rifles and the other is Hawken rifles.  Over the years I have built Bedford, Lancaster, and Virginia rifles, but I don't  enjoy them as much as the iron mounted TN and Hawken rifles.  Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  All of them have a place in history.  I owe Art a special thanks for his influence that has been with me over the years, and to Don Stith for being willing to help me by answering all my stupid questions I needed when building Hawken rifles.
                                                                                                 Roger Sells

Offline mark brier

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2019, 04:28:05 PM »
Smylee and Craig, in regards to the flintlock Hawkens there is still an ongoing debate to this day as to wether they existed or not. But General Ashley commissioned the Hawken shop to build him a large bored rifle for use along the river in the end of 1821 and as many know Ashley ran the famous newspaper article in 1822 looking for "enterprising young men". Since it seems to be the agreed opinion that the percussion cap wasn't truly invited until in 1822. Thefore it is my opinion that some flintlocks most definitely had to exhaust since Hawken is listed in the records as a gunsmith in St. Louis prior to 1822. The flintlock in the picture with side plated patchbox is Bob Woodfill's conceptual rifle that was made for General Ashley and is of .69 caliber. We do have Shop records and personal of both fullstock and halfstock rifles with the full stock being cheaper to purchase than the half stock. A flintlock Hawken rifle has yet to turn up but maybe one of these days it will. So the other flintlocks in the exhibit are our best idea of what they would have been.

As far as a book goes Bob Woodfill has wrote 16 out of his planned 18 articles and I do believe that with the help of the NMLRA after such a successful exhibit and interest that all the articles are going to go into book form with Bob writing a front and back for the book and maybe additional information as well.

Mark Brier

Offline mark brier

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2019, 04:39:04 PM »
Everyone can do what they want that they enjoy and like but wire inlay etc doesn't belong on a Hawken rifle. Samuel Hawken's personal rifle that was above "normal" Hawken work carried an engraved cap box and checkering but that is it. People can do what makes them happy but if you wanted to go that route I wouldn't build a strictly Hawken rifle rather stay with a plains rifle style but go with a later period Hoffman & Campbell rifle that was built for the local trade and you would be much more correct in your work.
Mark Brier

Offline Wobblyshot

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2019, 10:06:15 PM »
:o :o :o... Thanx, Mark,... back about 40+ years ago a young Art Roesel  brought a display of 14 original Hawken Rifles to the  Tennessee State shoots at Camp Boxwell, outside Gallatin Tennessee.... to a then green kid, (me) I thought I was in heaven,... I already had "the bug", but seeing this display ruined me,... had to have one,... learned to appreciate other types of M/L guns (mostly Tennessee), but a Hawken rifle still rests in a special place in my memories,....Good to see pix of old Art,... He is owed a debt of gratitude for influencing many young pilgrims along the way,..... Thanx for this post,... !!!! ... regards, Cades Cove Fiddler,....   

I was at Camp Boxwell that gathering and got to handle a full stock. Dug through the archives and found these pics of me and John Anderson posing with it. John could build a great Hawken and he later helped me with my first ever gun from a blank.... you guessed it....a full stock flint Hawken. Kilt my first Tennessee muzzleloader buck with it.
I was at Friendship most of the week and failed to make it to the exhibit....my loss I reckon.




Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2019, 10:46:04 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D.... Ya know, Robin,...... John never changes,... He's looked the same for 100 years,... !!!.... thanx for the great pix .... Ahhhhh,... those were the days,.... !!!,.... ( I wouldn't recognize you,... !!!)...

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2019, 10:47:22 PM »
Thanks for the responses, Mark and others.  Probably won't do any wire inlay work, but may do some period checkering.  Stick with something I'm good at.

Mark, if you want some help with editing, etc., I do have a lot of experience at that.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2019, 12:31:10 AM »
Thanks for that feed back Mark. I myself think that there is no way there were not flint Hawken rifles as both Jake and Sam were gunsmiths before the percussion cap came to be. Whether there were the classic iron mounted scroll gaurd plains style Hawken flinters or not I dont know. Thanks again for all your efforts in organizing and manning the exhibit.  :)

Offline Don Stith

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2019, 02:27:55 AM »
Should resist the baited trap set by Hungry Horse,whoever he may be.  Just have to respond though
  A kentucky with carving ,engraved inlays, and wire work is still ugly if the architecture is bad.  Your Santa Fe is in a similar situation

  They halfway caught the profile, but missed the  architectural contours badly.  I had hoped to stress those characteristics if I had been able to be there
 In a similar situation One of the most beautiful Kentuckies I have is by Wm Antes. It is not carved or engraved but the architecture is fantastic

 You know the old saying,"beauty is in the eye of the beholder" If we all had the same taste I would probably not have been able to wed my wonderful wife
Don

Offline Elnathan

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2019, 03:56:56 PM »
As far as a book goes Bob Woodfill has wrote 16 out of his planned 18 articles and I do believe that with the help of the NMLRA after such a successful exhibit and interest that all the articles are going to go into book form with Bob writing a front and back for the book and maybe additional information as well.

An up-to-date book on the Hawken rifle that is actually affordable (i.e., not $300!) would be much appreciated by myself, and by many others I'm sure.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying...cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Robert A. Heinlein

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken rifle exhibit
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2019, 04:12:33 PM »
I would think that in 1821 a rifle of ANY kind would be a flintlock and it is recorded in the
old Hawken Shop work ledger that they built this gun for General Ashley. If I am wrong on
this,please correct me at once.That shop was active from the flint era to the repeating rifle
and if no surviving specimens of a flintlock with the Hawken name on the barrel are found
it means they were used up and scrapped or given to kids to "play war"with or repurposed
into other uses like a crow bar or pump handle.
Elmer Keith wrote of seeing fine Sharps rifles use for a horse hitch by setting them in the ground
like a fence post so a similar fate could easily befall a muzzle loader or at least the barrel was.
Our ancestors had little interest in keeping a seemingly useless gun if a better one was available.

Bob Roller