Author Topic: Making a Pierced Sideplate  (Read 764 times)

Offline helwood

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Making a Pierced Sideplate
« on: July 12, 2019, 10:26:30 PM »
Making a Pierced Sideplate
Chasing
This plate was inspired from a plate by  Claude Simonim 1684, found in "Master French Gunsmiths' Designs".  It was originally for a French flintlock with 2 sidenails.  The sideplate for the Mullerbuchse/Sporting Jaeger Wheellock, required 3. I started by drawing the profile of the stock and marking the exact locations of the sidenails.  From this I was able to modify and redraw the sideplate.  I then made a copy and glued it to a piece of flat sheet brass .095" thick.  I cut the piercings out with a Jewler's saw, the saw blades were Laser Gold No. 4 from Rio Grande.    BOOKS that I found helpful to understanding the Chasing process were:  Chasing and Repousse - by Nancy Megan Corwin---Moving Metal- by Adolph Steines----Chasing- by Marcia Lewis---     Basically Chasing is working metal from the outside and has many applications, this is just one.
MAKING the CHASING TOOLS:    At WKU at the NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar you learn many things.  One year it was how to make engraving tools without a lot of sophisticated tools.  You can take annealed 1/8" W1 tool steel shape it with file and polish.  Then heat it to cherry and QUENCH in BEESWAX.  Then just polish and start using.  You don't have to draw it.  Knowing this process I made a number of Chasing tools I thought I might need.


Offline smart dog

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 12:02:42 AM »
Hi Helwood,
That is a magnificent side plate and very close to the pattern book.  Well done!  I cast my pierced and sculpted plates first using a carved wood or wax model and Delft clay casting.  Then I chase the casting to cut in new details and clean the cast details. 



This seems to be a pretty efficient method and the 18th century sculpted decorations in brass and silver I've examined seemed to have been made in a similar fashion. I suspect iron must have been just cut as you did your side plate.
Helwood, thank you for those references. I will be adding them to my library.

dave
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 01:28:15 AM by smart dog »
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Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 04:54:11 AM »
Greetings  Dave
You are correct about the technique for brass and silver.  I didn't want to use that because I knew I would be only making one of these and didn't want to make a pattern and then cast.  I've followed your posts, nice.         Sincerely,  Hank

Offline Curtis

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 06:48:33 AM »
Awesome work and great info there Hank!  I am anxiously awaiting more photos!  8)


Curtis
Curtis Allinson

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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 07:53:21 PM »
 Hank.
   Thanks for telling us about your process for making the side plate. As an engraver in the guild I have learned two methods of sculpting. One method is to use punches as you did. The other is to chisel the item out. I have always preferred the chisel method. What you have done here equals some of the very best. It is inspiring. As mentioned casting is also an other method. However in the old days a side plate such as you have done was done by a member of some guild and then the original was used for the pattern and sent to the silver casters to be re produced. You mentioned Master French Gunsmiths designs. In France these designs were drawn by artists and intended to be produced such as you did.
 Very nice work of the best quality. It is refreshing to see such a talent now days.
 Jerry Huddleston.   
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline David Rase

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 07:58:48 PM »
Beautiful Hank.  Could you share a pic or two of some of your chasing tools?
Thanks, David

Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2019, 08:58:41 PM »
Reworking design for this prigect.l=https://ibb.co/QpKzV51][/url]

Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2019, 09:17:24 PM »
Brass with pattern cut out on stick to see how it fits.ttps://ibb.co/89Cdp1z][/url]

Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2019, 09:19:55 PM »
Chasing tools made as previously described


Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2019, 09:25:03 PM »
This is the Chasing Bowl with correct amount of pitch.  It needs to be above the edge of the bowl.  The bowl comes with a rubber wheel it sets on so you can move it to different positions.


Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2019, 09:28:17 PM »
This is the plate in Thermo-Loc from GRS.


Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2019, 09:33:11 PM »
This is the plate in the Pitch at WKU.  The way you soften the pitch is with a heat gun.  Before you put your piece in the pitch coat the bottom with mineral oil. 


Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2019, 09:39:32 PM »
NOTE:  The last day of class Wallace Gussler happened to walk by my bench to see how things were going.  He picked it up and said, "you need to annealed this"  I've worked alot of brass shaping pipes and boxes.  I know you need to annealed these as you go.  I just hadn't thought about it in this context.  It really made a difference when I got home to finish it.


Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2019, 09:43:25 PM »
This is a third technique to hold the plate, looks like similar way as Dave uses.  I was able to get to more places around the plate.


Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2019, 09:49:29 PM »
Thanks Jerry and Dave kind words and thoughts.  This is the first time I've  tried posting with photos.  I couldn't figure out how to post multiple photos without using single replies.  Hopefully in future I'll get better.  Hank

Offline smart dog

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2019, 10:04:01 PM »
Hi Hank,
Fantastic work and great photos!  I am so happy to see folks doing this kind of work.  In a sense, if you master it, the sky is the limit.  As you well demonstrate, one challenge is holding such delicate and complex pieces.  You really need a variety of methods because each piece is so different. 

dave
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2019, 03:11:10 AM »
Hank.
  I have done some chasing on side plates and have found that the harder the underlying surface is the easier it is to work. Try mounting your next one on a steel bar with thermo lock or super glue.
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2019, 03:47:30 AM »
Super work Hank!

Offline helwood

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2019, 04:46:35 AM »
Thanks Jerry that sounds like a good idea.  I don't know if you remember we met at Ron Scott's  gathering a couple of years ago.  I gave a talk on the Lukens and Girardoni Airrifles I had made and the Spanish pistols  I had made the Miquellet locks from Wrought iron anchor chain link.  You did a talk on heat blueing barrels.          James thanks for kind words it keeps you going when you're not sure how things are going.
      Thanks, Hank

Online Daryl

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2019, 04:56:45 AM »
Astoundingly intricate work, Gentlemen - very lovely indeed.
Thank you most sincerely for the thread, Hank.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Curtis

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2019, 07:56:18 AM »
Glad you made this post Hank.  I learned some more stuff here even though I watched you do part of it at WKU!

Curtis
Curtis Allinson

NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar and Workshop at WKU~ http://www.nmlragunsmithingseminar.org/
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2019, 02:46:10 PM »
Excellent work, Hank!  I too, thank you for posting, and would love to see more people try this type of work.  This is very informative as well, and I learned a couple of things, so thanks!  Again, great work!


         Ed

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Making a Pierced Sideplate
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2019, 08:24:36 PM »
helwood.
   Now I remember you. That air guns was fantastic. Very complicated. If I was younger I think I might try one. 
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