Author Topic: Bucks County Rifles  (Read 1189 times)

Offline Mike Lyons

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Bucks County Rifles
« on: July 17, 2019, 06:13:08 AM »
Iím really taking a liking to rifle 64 and 65 in Shumway Vol 1.  I know a lot of the issues that come with Lehigh rifles.  What are some of the issues that you run into building a Bucks County?  Both originals are smoothbores.  Would it be appropriate to build a shotgun in this style? 

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2019, 06:38:36 AM »
Thereís a good sized early Bucks County fowler in Kindigís book, iirc.

Hereís one sold recently. Extensively cleaned; lock may be a replacement. Still very exciting to me.















« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 06:46:25 AM by rich pierce »
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2019, 02:36:57 PM »
One of my favorites (from the KRA CD) is a John Shuler fowler.

Kevin

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Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 04:47:32 PM »
Thanks for the information.  I'm going to have to get the Bucks County KRA Disc. 

Offline hanshi

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 09:26:35 PM »
The lines of the Bucks County are truly appealing to the eye and I like them a lot; Lehigh, not so much.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2019, 01:29:10 AM »
The lines of the Bucks County are truly appealing to the eye and I like them a lot; Lehigh, not so much.
I'm going to have to send somebody over to bust your chops now.... :P
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2019, 04:23:13 AM »
Rich that's a great big chunky Bucks piece, probably very late War or immediately post-war.  I think unfortunately there is a lot of replacement $#@* on it - lock, obviously the worked over buttplate, and I don't; think the guard is original either although I'm not 100% on that.  I don't know if there are publicly obvious photos but there is a 177x something date (I'll have to go back to my own photos) scratched below the cheek and above it, "I am not afraid."  No comment on the viability of those scratchings but they're there.  I did not know it had been sold recently but the owner of it as of @ 15 years ago had a later piece that was quite possibly by the same guy, and he (the owner) was quite hot on the idea that these were Jacob Daub rifles.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2019, 06:21:26 AM »
Thanks, Eric, for that information.  When it came up for sale, I could scarecely consider buying it but was tempted; the buttplate, lock, and extensive cleaning let me off the hook at the price it went for.  Iím sure the buyer is delighted and Iíd be too if I could have popped for it.

Despite some fixes, it has a lot of appeal and the buttplate is probably is close to the original (but not sure about the engraving).Iím thinking this one may be the inspiration for my next fowler build.   Good to know the guard may be a replacement. I was about to carve a model and get a couple cast. Thatíd be a lot of work.
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Offline Long John

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2019, 05:00:37 PM »
Rich,

That is an interesting gun!  I can offer only one thought - the trigger guard is from a French fowler or doublegun of 1780 to 1800 vintage.  I have seen that style TG on dozens of the French doubleguns I have studied as part of my build effort on my French doublegun.  Before that time the bow on the wrist would be much rounder.  After that time period the French TG shape evolved to accommodate the animal or grotesque carving that formed a "semi-pistol grip" stock profile.

Like Eric said, we can't know whether some of the parts are the result of replacements over the past 2 centuries or whether it was initially built with the collection of parts that we see on the surviving gun.  But I'll bet that TG is French from the 1780 to 1800 era.
 
That's all I know.

Best Regards,

JMC
John Cholin

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2019, 06:27:54 PM »
Thanks John!  So much knowledge here.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2019, 07:22:02 PM »
Rich I don't know for certain on the guard, but the previous owner had told me that he believed the guard *may* have been a replacement.  I don't know if he ever took it apart.  There is a splice or repair joint just forward of the bow on the forward finial, a very clean square-across joint, so ***my guess*** is that the gun originally had a typical decorative fowler type guard that was damaged, and the guard on it now is a composite or repair.  I suspect the original buttplate, original guard and side plate all were a suite either purchased or salvaged; I also think the original buttplate finial was probably long and decorative and this abominable repair was basically slapped on to cover up a damaged long upper finial. 

The lock itself has had work done to it as it stands, possibly a reconversion.  The mortise under it is completely hogged out (very old, not recently) so it's kind of tough to tell if it's the original lock or lock plate.  Don't remember what the owner thought at the time but the lock bolts sure are replacements.

Was just checking through photos, the date scratched under the cheek is "1774."  Seems a bit early for the gun, although not outrageously so.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 07:36:59 PM by Eric Kettenburg »
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2019, 07:57:19 PM »
Thx, also interesting that some of these guns appear to have been quite lightly stained.
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Offline hanshi

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 10:28:13 PM »
The lines of the Bucks County are truly appealing to the eye and I like them a lot; Lehigh, not so much.
I'm going to have to send somebody over to bust your chops now.... :P


Okay, okay, I'll wait until after I post before having my evening drink.  :-\
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2019, 11:56:23 PM »
The lines of the Bucks County are truly appealing to the eye and I like them a lot; Lehigh, not so much.
I'm going to have to send somebody over to bust your chops now.... :P


Okay, okay, I'll wait until after I post before having my evening drink.  :-\
You need to attend a Brooks re-education camp.... ;)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2019, 12:04:17 AM »
The lines of the Bucks County are truly appealing to the eye and I like them a lot; Lehigh, not so much.
I'm going to have to send somebody over to bust your chops now.... :P


Okay, okay, I'll wait until after I post before having my evening drink.  :-\
You need to attend a Brooks re-education camp.... ;)
I wish you could set one of those Re-Education camps up at Wayneís refuge.  I could probably swing that.  Driving out to flyover country is hard to do. 

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2019, 12:11:38 AM »
It ainít that bad buddy! And I was smiling all the way home.  The kool-aid was mixed perfectly. ;D

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2019, 12:13:01 AM »
The lines of the Bucks County are truly appealing to the eye and I like them a lot; Lehigh, not so much.
I'm going to have to send somebody over to bust your chops now.... :P
I'll be doing an informal indoctrination at Wayne's the day before the CLA show. ;D


Okay, okay, I'll wait until after I post before having my evening drink.  :-\
You need to attend a Brooks re-education camp.... ;)
I wish you could set one of those Re-Education camps up at Wayneís refuge.  I could probably swing that.  Driving out to flyover country is hard to do.
I'll be doing an informal indoctrination at Wayne's the day before the CLA show. ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline hanshi

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2019, 10:22:04 PM »
 8) Indoctrination, gooood.  ???  Everything else, baaaad.  :o
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Bucks County Rifles
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2019, 05:12:29 AM »
   Mike sure wood like to be a fly on the wall for that information.  Oldtravler