Author Topic: How many grooves?  (Read 1021 times)

Offline David R.

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How many grooves?
« on: July 22, 2019, 12:45:38 AM »
Typically on original  southern mountain rifles, how many rifling grooves? What was most common in this area on original guns?
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Offline mbriggs

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2019, 02:13:06 AM »
Seven lands, seven grooves.

Michael
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Offline David R.

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2019, 04:40:52 AM »
I am a little premature. I don’t have the first barrel bored yet, but the boring machine is completed. There is a little more forge work needed on the barrel blank to refine flats and straighten a little, so I am starting to consider construction of a rifling bench. Seven is sort of what I had in mind, but I don’t have access to a lot of originals. Just wondering what would be most appropriate as I begin design.
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Offline James Wilson Everett

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2019, 01:47:36 PM »
Guys,

A seven groove barrel was certainly the most common in the 18th c.  The reason was that the rifling head employed a cutter opposite an adjustable shoe, giving a groove opposite a land - the odd number.  While seven was the most common, the Daniel Border rifling machine could also cut a nine groove barrel.

Check this out:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=17991.msg168788#msg168788

Jim

Offline JCKelly

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2019, 05:14:40 AM »
I believe there is a "shooting reason" as well as how it is cut, in favor of odd number of grooves. Disremember. Suspect it is why our Civil War rifles, and the Brits, used three grooves.
Here is a 7-groove German pistol barrel, circa 1750. And yes, this is the final reason why I bought it.


Offline T*O*F

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2019, 04:41:36 PM »
Quote
I believe there is a "shooting reason" as well as how it is cut, in favor of odd number of grooves.
The common theory at that time was the projectile should always be supported by two lands opposite a groove, leading to a more stable projectile.
Dave Kanger

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Offline Tanselman

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2019, 01:51:14 AM »
Not sure I understand. How are there two lands opposite a groove...isn't it just one land opposite a groove? Shelby Gallien

Offline g.pennell

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2019, 06:27:28 AM »
I’d always heard that barrels were rifled with 7 grooves because of superstitions...seven being a
lucky  number. Also the reason the muzzles were decorated...to keep the haints out of the barrel.

But what do I know...🤷🏻‍♂️

Greg
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Online rich pierce

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2019, 06:36:28 AM »
Occasionally an original very large caliber rifled barrel is found with 9 grooves.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline David R.

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2019, 01:49:25 PM »
Greg, I like those explanations. I believe I will cut my rifling guide for seven grooves, and decorate the muzzle, my shooting needs all the help it can get.
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Offline Daryl

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2019, 03:43:28 PM »
I think this one has 11 grooves. Of course, not a SMRifle.


Daryl

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Offline David R.

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2019, 03:57:59 PM »
Daryl, what is the age and style of your eleven groove barrel?
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2019, 04:42:08 PM »
Seven is supposed to be a number associated with God.N.G.Whitmore made 12 groove barrels,gain twist
that outshot everything in the Northeast and were,according to Ned Roberts declared as unfair in matches
up there.
Bob Roller

Offline Skirmisher

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2019, 07:52:11 PM »
I have an early N. Kendall half-stock 47-bore rifle with a 9-groove barrel.  Again, an odd number of grooves.  However, my best shooting antique rifle has a Remington 6 groove barrel.  I don't see that either odd or even give much advantage.

Offline Daryl

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2019, 03:52:46 AM »
Daryl, what is the age and style of your eleven groove barrel?

Taylor's rifle, not mine.  Joseph Lang made in 1853, 16 bore Sporting Rifle. Might be 12 groove, Taylor could check.




Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline David R.

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2019, 02:25:39 PM »
I thought about building my rifle bench with a gain twist guide, but wouldn't it be difficult if not impossible to lap or freshen rifling if ever needed?
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Online rich pierce

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2019, 05:01:55 PM »
Got to do some work on a relic barrel stamped J&S Hawken, St. Louis, which was stamped over an indecipherable script stamping. Probably came into their shop as a wrecked gun and they rebuilt it into a local gun (rest of gun long gone). It’s about .38 caliber with 6 grooves. Obviously not one of their standard barrels. It’s funny how”famous” works. Without that stamp it’s just another old relic barrel. Now it’s interesting. Still the same barrel with or without the stamp.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Daryl

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Re: How many grooves?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2019, 02:01:37 AM »
I thought about building my rifle bench with a gain twist guide, but wouldn't it be difficult if not impossible to lap or freshen rifling if ever needed?

Interesting comment. Harry Pope noted the gain twist, which he preferred, could not be properly lapped in the
 bottom of the grooves, but had to be made RIGHT in the first place. It was also the preferred type of rifling, by
many at that time - 1900. As far as a round ball gain twist, I do not know if that is superior. Are there any round
ball bench-rest shootings using gain twists?
I know Dphar is near unbeatable with his Jim McLemore gain twist .50 for plank shooting. Patched round balls of course.
 (he doesn't use .012" patches nor only 65gr. of powder - shhhhh, it's a secret)


edited:

Nope sorry, that is not so. Dan told us exactly what he used, or rather what it took to win a 60 yard contest.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 02:13:25 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V