Critiques?

[Mauser06]

Really wish I could have made it to Dixon's for you guys to look at this first hand.  My first plank build.  2nd longrifle build. 

Looking for critiques basically from the breech to the butt.   Front of the lock panels need a little shaping yet...


Inspired by the early stuff... an Albrecht rifle and others from that period. 



Whatever you see...good or bad...if I can fix it or if it's already beyond correction....I try my hardest to take input from you guys to improve my stocking.  I have been going over this for a while now and I think I am happy...so I figured before I start tidying up the rest and laying out carving, I better ask if it's there yet.   
















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Should note the cheekpiece height will be lowered when I carve.  I'd say probably by about a quarter to half its current height. 


I appreciate it as always!   

[Mike Brooks]

Straight barreled gun?

[Mauser06]

C weight breech 44" 58cal swamped by Hoyt

[Stickburner]

The heel of the buttplate looks like it may not be on a straight plane with the comb.  Try checking the alignment with a straight edge.

 

[Mike Lyons]

I don’t know enough about the school to give you advice but I can throw in a compliment.  The taper on the upper lock panels look nice to me. 👍

[Marcruger]

Good looking buttstock. I like the tall buttplate profile. My only suggestion would be a wider flat face on the cheekpiece. You’ll most likely get that when you reduce the height. God bless, Marc

[bama]

From what I can see, it looks like you may have cut the side plate side of the stock a little thin. That is what I think Mike was leading to when he asked if it was a straight barrel. You forearm does not look heavy enough for a "C" weight barrel. Something is wrong there but I can not see it well enough in these pictures to tell what it is. The comb is a little on the fat side, right about midway between the heel of the butt plate and the nose of the comb. I would like to see better pictures of the cheek rest area, if possible.

[Mauser06]

Thanx all!   



I will take better pics....

Now that I look over them, I see that the pics are making everything look wonky.  To me, I see the comb doings all sorts of kinks and it looks way crooked...I promise it's not! Lol. 



I didn't realize that...the actual look different on my phone than they do in the post which is odd...



Anywho...I will try to get better pics tomorrow. 


Wouldn't be surprised to hear I took too much wood in certain areas...I did it before lol.  Tried to be careful this time... definitely did better than the last lol. 

[TommyG]

I think your cheek might be just a bit to far forward, or maybe you could shorten it a bit, 1/2" or so, and still be correct for a CS gun.  What is going to happen is when you go to cut the moulding for the nose/comb area it will not flow into the cheek front as is.  I always want that moulding line to sweep back and down gently to the cheek front.  This is a tough area to get correct and I usually end up spending a lot of time on the cheek trying to get things just right. 

[alacran]

I don't like to critique a gun based on pictures. But this is not a finished gun. And you asked for critique.
The thing that stands out to me is that the comb of the buttplate appears to be on a different plane than the comb itself. I believe that is what R Allen meant by the heel of the buttplate.

[rich pierce]

It’s not strictly a CS based rifle. Your wrist is longer, there’s no subtle step in the wrist, and your sideplate is different. I just think “robust early rifle” when I look at your pictures.

If the top of the buttplate does dive down a bit you can, carefully, sort of rotate it clockwise while re-inletting it. Take it off, make the top shelf of the buttplate inlet more parallel to the comb line, and re-inlet it.

[Jim Kibler]

Here are some things I see:


The buttplate definetely does seem to dive down relative to the comb.  This is shown in a number of photos, so I don't think it's an illusion.  The buttplate can be pushed the other direction so it raises a bit relative to the comb, but diving down can be a killer. 

The forestock looks flat and square in the area of the front guard extension.  Contributing to this is the width of the guard extension relative to the width of the stock in this area.  The front of the guard looks pretty wide. 

The toe looks to have a lot of taper.  More than is typically seen.  Some taper is really nice, but this is a lot.


It's not an easy thing to ask for critique like this.  You might not be able to fix all of these issues, but you'll at least learn for the next one.  A lot could be learned from more discussions like this.

Jim

[fahnenschmied]

I would say the heel of the buttplate would worry me a bit - however, I see such things on various old guns that I would also want to "fix".  One could perhaps file the flats with more of a taper to the back....or anneal your buttplate, bend the heel up a bit, and re-inlet it a bit.  Or a combination of the two.  Otherwise - I dont know the nuances of the older New World rifles better than the Old World ones.  Its looking great so far.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I assume you will countersink your buttplate screw heads.  Leave them domed, just slightly, or file them flush...either way looks good.  But they are extremely domed, presently.

Because of the width of the forward extension of the trigger guard, you ran out of wood to create a nice rounded underside to the stock forward of the lock plate.  Even so, make an effort to round up the forestock as far back as you dare.  A slab-sided forestock should be avoided.

[Scota4570]

"The buttplate definitely does seem to dive down relative to the comb. "

It also seems to be flatter and wider at the top front end than the stock.  IF the brass is malleable that part might be pinched to make it thinner and taller.  At that point the top flat of the stock would then be lowered and the butplate re fitted.  The toe would need trimming.  Use a straight edge like a ruler with light behind it to visualize the gap.   This actually goes for all of the long lines of a stock.  They should never be concave. 

All in all it looks pretty good. 

[Mauser06]

You guys are awesome!!!   I appreciate it!   


Most guys simply don't want something they worked so long and hard on picked apart and the flaws pointed out.  I can't learn if I don't know what to do better.   


Forgot to note...YES everything will be countersunk and filed during final cleanup.  Don't know why but I leave that for last when I am done taking everything in and out. 


The front return of the trigger guard area....man you guys have good eyes.  That area IS a bit flat for like 1/2".....some may not remember my first post with this rifle.   ..



I built a new trigger and lowered the bottom forestock and reshaped a lot of the gun.   I maybe took it a little far in some areas.   


Definitely not built after any one rifle....or even school.  I wanted to focus more on turning a hunk of wood into a functional gunstock than worry about getting little details of what school or known original I am replicating.   Just an early styled rifle..   

I actually have learned a lot and learned new chores.  I've never made sights, triggers, sideplates or nose pieces.  I've also never worked with very raw sand castings for the mounts. 


I appreciate everyone's input.  I will certainly look at everything that you guys are seeing and fix it if I can, or print this thread to remind myself next time.   

I will also take pics with better lighting and background.  I didn't realize how poor they turned out.   

[Mauser06]

So the buttplate issue.....









Definitely didn't get that all out like I thought...


But as you see, the return (imo) looks right.  The very top edge of the heel looks like it could be filed down more to lower it and then I think a removal of a smidge of wood would clean that up??   Maybe I'm off base....? 

If I correct it by inletting the heel side of the return lower, I think the return will be pointing upwards at that point ..?

[pjmcdonald]

Mauser,

Took a stab at sketching some adjustments. I may not be entirely correct in my assessments, so take them with a grain of salt. Master builders have a better eye than me.






Hope this helps.

Paul

[Mauser06]

Paul, I really appreciate that!!

Those definitely help me see the little problem areas. 


I need to find somewhere to take better pics ..good lighting and a good background.   



I didn't knock it outta the park...but for my first plank I think I am happier with my work than my first longrifle..a precarve.   

I really need to find a class and schedule it.  Or go see Mike Brook's for a week...though that's a bit of a drive for me in NW PA.    I am at a point where I can stock a functional gun...but the little details and carving need help.  This forum, books, videos etc are the best I can do at the moment. 

I've also never had an artistic hair on my head...so seeing the little things...and especially carving...is a struggle for me.    I enjoy stocking flintlocks...and really love hunting with guns I've stocked. 


You guys are a huge asset to me and I truly appreciate it. 



I am not afraid of criticism.  I want to get better....so I will continue to make these posts.   I think that there's a lot to be learned from posts like this. 

[TommyG]

Mauser,  You are to be applauded for putting your work up for critique to become better.  Not many people do that.  Your build is for sure on the right track and the guys here, as you know will speed up the learning curve.  I know it's a bit late this year, but I think the best bang for your buck would be to plan a 3 day weekend at Dixon's next year.  Seminars, some of today's best builders, some original work, ALR members, it's all there for five bucks a day.  Probably a 5-6 hr drive for you.  TommyG

[Mike Lyons]

I think you’ll still knock it out of the park.  I see a lot of things you’ve accomplished well on that rifle.  A few of the things you’ve accomplished look more HC in my books than a lot of rifles I see from folks who don’t open up for criticism and would take offense to it.  You also asked for criticism at a great time.   

[Mauser06]

Dixon's never seems to work for me.   It's our "vacation season" and I don't have weekends off so getting it off hasn't worked out.   The last 2 years I've had a 4 day weekend immediately before or after it by odd schedule situations lol.   



I will say the Andreas Albrecht rifle that was restored from pieces has largely been my inspiration though I won't claim I tried to make a bench copy....I'd imagine my breech is thinner and the Dale Johnson I used is slightly different....all that throws it off a bit.  Allen Martin's "pre-rev Lancaster" and a few other of his rifles is other inspiration. 

I had to laugh as I look at the original.  The buttplate is nearly identical dip and all.  I know for me the reason was because I worked long and hard filing the front edge of the return and neglected the heel.  I actually caught it and filed it down but obviously didn't check to make sure it was enough. 


I do see the original rifles cheek piece is shorter on the front end.  To the rear, it seems to line up.   I've learned it's easier to remove wood than add it....that's why when I got to this point I felt like it was a good idea to ask for extra eyes.  I haven't developed the eye for all the details yet. 

Honestly if you guys knew me, you'd said I was the world's worst candidate for a gun stocker.  No knowledge.  Huge lack of patience...huge lack of artistic talent period.  No tools. No work bench.  Nothing.    I just love flintlocks and always wanted to build one....once I started, I found it very enjoyable and rewarding.  Killing my biggest buck with a flintlock I put together was a very cool feeling. 

I'm learning and growing as a builder.  The only thing I didn't make or heavily modify on that rifle (aside from the barrel and lock) is the pipes.  I will admit pipes are IMO easier to buy than make so long as there's appropriate pipes to buy lol.  To me, learning to do everything I did on this was very rewarding and adds to it all. 

It feels great...very light and balanced.... and I've already shot it...it shoots straight.  So I'm happy...but I strive to get better.   


My next rifle is going to be very similar but with a 42" octagon to round 62cal barrel with a larger breech...I don't really want to jump to a totally different school yet.  While all this is fresh, I think I can improve on the next one.....

[Chowmi]

Mauser,
I also applaud you for posting and asking for critique. It’s difficult to do.

I have a comment  that nobody else has made, so therefore maybe it’s wrong! 

Have a look at the transition from the rear of your cheek piece to the corner of the butt plate and the area behind the cheek piece that is usually carved.
Your aft end of the cheek piece looks to have nearly a straight line pointed towards the front of the butt plate return (or front edge of the butt plate on the comb).
I think that transition should be a nice curving arc that fades away pointing at the corner of the butt plate.  Think of it this way: if you carve a C scroll behind the cheek piece, the arc of the back of the cheek piece follows the curve of that C scroll.
Make sense? 

To get this effect requires the blending of several compound curves, and should naturally occur as an intersection of the profile from the butt plate to the comb. Hard to describe, easy to see in person.

Something more like this:






I hope that helps,

Norm.

[louieparker]

Mauser I am attaching a photo of a Lancaster style rifle by Jacob Metzger. It shows how the carving grows out of the cheek piece and seems to become part of the carving. ..... Louie

[Mauser06]

Cleaned up the comb...I think it looks much better. 


Patchbox lid is a little wider than I'd like. Dovetail tore out.  Not sure if I keep it or go-to a brass box...?  I can't thin it anymore than it is. 


Still have a little blending and cleanup on the butt yet...both sides...