Author Topic: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820  (Read 7107 times)

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13166
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2019, 02:57:51 AM »
Quote
Mike: that "Running Deer" rifle looks very much like the tradition of carving and architecture coming out of the Rockbridge County Virginia area in the 1770-80 period; but who really knows for sure...lots of influences up and down the Great Road in the 18th century.

Bruce Larson
Thanks, I've been slightly baffled by that running deer gun. I saw some similarities in EK's gun.....
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Online Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2019, 03:35:57 AM »
The running deer is one of those enigma pieces that will probably be argued over until another shows up with a signature or something more regionally oriented.  There are two pretty firm camps, one based in VA and one in Berks Co.  Personally, I'm fairly non-committal because I have no idea whatsoever where it was made.  It's pretty unique without any really obvious co conspirators.

Someone sent me a pm and asked about this current 'fake' and a comparison or not to the well worn "bird head" rifle in RCA II.  You know, the step wrist gun with the somewhat ugly bird head-ish brass box slapped on the side (later) and brass repairs under the very deformed guard.  Now that, to my mind, is an earlier ca. 1780s upper townships rifle, probably Kutztown or north and east toward the blue mountain.  I sense somewhat of a forerunner of the later pieces by Jacob George and Stoffel Long in that rifle, and for all I know it may be an unsigned Henry George (Jacob's father) who was a gunsmith and likely trained a number of those upper Berks townships guys.  Unfortunately there as yet has not materialized a signed Henry George.

This is largely modeled after a few unsigned rifles that I think are probably Stoffel Long, although I have to throw Jacob George out there as the two obviously had some kind of connection.  Mike D'Ambra has had some cool "stoffels" over the years despite no signature, and this is largely modeled after a couple of those as well as some of the published stuff.

One way I look at aging these is that while initially you can age up the parts individually, i.e. I use a pvc 'sweat pipe' to get the barrel going, and I may preliminarily fume the brass in ammonia (nothing looks better but be careful!) in a closed container, ultimately these rifles have been refinished probably 20 times and at some point the whole piece has to be put together and THEN you have to continue on with the aging, rubbing back, refinish, age some more etc etc etc all as a complete unit.  At some point, taking them apart repeatedly becomes a detriment.  So one thing that is mandatory is a large enough somewhat impermeable container or tent to fit the entire rifle.  After all, a rifle that may have dried out and aged in an attic, or barn, or basement, or closet for 100 years, was doing so as a completed object and not a pile of separate parts.

I really, REALLY appreciate all of the commentary guys.  Thank you very much.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline louieparker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2019, 05:13:45 AM »
Eric , Like everyone else I like your Blue mountain rifle.. But I recall an Angstadt rifle you did a few years ago . Its one I have remembered and would like to see again. You had antiqued it. I don't recall where it was posted.. If you know the one I speak of and get a chance could you post them again... Louie

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13166
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2019, 03:12:57 PM »
Well, I wish it were me that bought it. I hope who ever did enjoys it as much as I would have. If my "ship ever sails in" (not likely ;)) I'd put you on retainer to build what ever tripped your trigger. What a great collection that would be!
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Online Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2019, 08:03:02 PM »
That's one heck of a compliment Mike, thanks!

I think truthfully, all of us get much more excited building something that inspires us or really captures our interest 'in the moment.'  For me, coming up with an imagined storyline and then turning it into something tangible to fit the narrative really floats my boat.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline art riser

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 428

Offline art riser

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 428

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13166
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2019, 11:32:46 PM »
That's one heck of a compliment Mike, thanks!

I think truthfully, all of us get much more excited building something that inspires us or really captures our interest 'in the moment.'  For me, coming up with an imagined storyline and then turning it into something tangible to fit the narrative really floats my boat.
As a builder, there's nothing I enjoy more than making something I want to build instead of what somebody else wants built. I used to take on everything, but now I'm really particular. I have something on the bench right now that I have a free hand to do what ever  I want with. Very enjoyable. :)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Online Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2019, 12:04:17 AM »
Louie - I've done a number of Angstadt rifles and I thought I had two on my site.  Art linked to one, which I really was happy with, but there was another that I was sure was on the same page but it's not coming up for me.  The second one was much more of "fake" as opposed to the link above, which was more of a contemporary aging job.  I haven't been able to do anything with my own site since 2015 since apple discontinued iWeb and since I no longer even have the original files.  I have to do an entirely new site over with a new developer program and it makes me exhausted just thinking about it!
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline louieparker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2019, 02:00:14 AM »
Eric,, Thanks to you and Art for your effort. Those are both very nice guns but not the one  I recall....I guess your computer ate it..Sure seems to happen to me.  Louie



Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18819
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2019, 06:13:45 AM »
Couple color pix of the earlier “ugly bird head patchbox” rifle. Not great angles.









Andover, Vermont

Online Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2019, 01:08:09 AM »
Glad to see that rifle has a new, more appropriate guard and has been repaired around the underside of the lock.  I wish Earl still posted here, would love to see more pics of it after being somewhat restored.

IMHO, if ever there was a rifle ripe to be an unsigned 'upper townships' Henry George rifle, that would probably be it.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

westbrook

  • Guest
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2019, 12:59:53 AM »
Outstanding piece of work Mr. K

Properly aging a gun is every bit an art as the carving & engraving ect...


Online Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2019, 02:01:15 AM »
Thank you!  This time, for probably the first time ever, I actually decided to try to loosely keep track of time.  Nothing specific, but enough to be able to state with certainty that the aging style illustrated here took me a full three times as long as the time taken to actually stock up the rifle 'as-new.'  Kind of crazy.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline Robert Wolfe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1267
  • Great X Grandpa
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2019, 02:58:53 AM »
Well, holding the rifle in hand, I can certainly see that a lot of care and effort went in to the aging. A truly wonderful piece.
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Offline t.caster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3658
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2019, 04:43:35 PM »
Eric, I don't think I have ever seen one of your rifle/smoothbore creations I didn't fall in love with. This is another fine example. Your work inspires me to be more creative.
Tom C.

Offline tddeangelo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 221
Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2020, 06:14:10 AM »
I’m a Berks County native, born and raised here. I can see the Blue Mountain from my kitchen. 

I can’t express how much I enjoy the pics of this rifle.