Author Topic: French inspired Colonial Fowler  (Read 954 times)

Offline Ken Prather

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
    • TomBob Outdoors, LLC.
French inspired Colonial Fowler
« on: October 09, 2019, 05:40:33 PM »
my newest gun acquisition.

https://link.shutterfly.com/XSPte5HIz0
Galations 2:20

Online WESTbury

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2019, 09:57:40 PM »
Ken--- That is a great looking fowler. The French civilian arms and some of the early Fusil de Chasse pieces are some of the most attractive long guns.

Very nice wood.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9966
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2019, 10:47:25 PM »
A rifled fowler?
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4019
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2019, 10:54:08 PM »
That's a very elegant gun and finished to perfection. 
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Ken Prather

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
    • TomBob Outdoors, LLC.
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2019, 10:58:54 PM »
The John Getz barrel has straight rifling.
Galations 2:20

Offline R.J.Bruce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2019, 12:27:30 AM »
Can anyone explain the purpose of straight rifling?

What is it supposed to accomplish, and how effective is it in a muzzleloading smoothbore?

Thanks,
               R.J.Bruce

Offline Ken Prather

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
    • TomBob Outdoors, LLC.
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2019, 12:44:22 AM »
I have read that historically speaking the straight rifling may have been to give fouling a place to go? Straight rifling is sometimes found on modern shotguns and the idea is that they will help stabilize the projectile(s) and improve accuracy. Depending on who you talk to, some say it works some say it makes very little difference. Straight rifling is found in some original guns. John Getz did a beautiful job on this barrel. Looking forward to trying it out.
Galations 2:20

Offline rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12470
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2019, 01:46:29 AM »
Ive got an original jaeger boar gun with a straight rifled octagonal barrel.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9782
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2019, 02:53:21 PM »
I owned an original Durs Egg fowling gun in 14 bore with straight rifling. Theory has it it helped hold the shot pattern together. This was a very light barrel and I'm sure was never intended for ball, full blown fowling gun. Sort of "micro grooved", something like 16 or 17 grooves. Spanish barrel by the way.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Online WESTbury

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2019, 04:26:15 PM »
To Mikes point, when the Ordnance Dept. made the decision to rifle percussion altered Model 1816 muskets and use a .69 cal Mini Ball bullet, they quickly discovered that the pressures were too great for the relatively thin walled barrels. What they did discover was that the rifling marginally improved accuracy when buck & ball loads were fired.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 07:02:36 PM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline westbrook

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2019, 05:04:38 PM »
Paraphrase what Chuck Edward's to me once....straight rifling is better than no rifling and you can still use shot.

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9782
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2019, 11:12:00 PM »
The English were using straight rifling  as purely a shot pattern improver. You'll also find a lot of 1740-70 German 1/2 stock fowling guns straight rifled too. The ones I have seen had "standard" cut  round bottom rifling. I have one now that the rifling is quite deep but only goes 6" to 8" down the barrel. Others are rifled for the full length.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 02:22:02 PM by Mike Brooks »
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Pukka Bundook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1768
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2019, 03:48:54 AM »
As Mike says in both posts above.
Straight -grooved barrels for shot were popular for a while in the 18th century.  They were made for a specific size of shot that corresponded to the grooves.   They did throw very nice patterns with the correct size shot.

Germanic boar guns were often straight rifled as well.  Not sure on the theory why , but can surmise.

Offline Cossack

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2019, 06:05:51 AM »
That's a very attractive gun. What kind of wood is it?

As for the straight rifling, I have no experience or wisdom of my own, but I came across this little blurb last night when I was looking for something else: http://www.flintriflesmith.com/WritingandResearch/WebArticles/straightrifling.htm

Offline Ken Prather

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
    • TomBob Outdoors, LLC.
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2019, 07:41:19 AM »
The stock wood is cherry. The lock is a Jim Chambers early Ketland. The barrel like I mentioned was made by John Getz.
Galations 2:20

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9782
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2019, 02:24:23 PM »
As Mike says in both posts above.
Straight -grooved barrels for shot were popular for a while in the 18th century.  They were made for a specific size of shot that corresponded to the grooves.   They did throw very nice patterns with the correct size shot.

Germanic boar guns were often straight rifled as well.  Not sure on the theory why , but can surmise.
Germanic boar guns....I have suspected these deeply straight rifled 1/2 stock guns that look like fowling guns were actually boar guns. Why they look like fowling guns I don't know. Any theories Pukka?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline R.J.Bruce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2019, 03:00:46 PM »
Thanks for all the answers regarding straight rifling. I learned a lot that I did not know.

Mr. Prather, how deep is the rifling in the Getz barrel? Is it round bottom rifling?

Mike Brooks and Pukka Bundook, what was the relationship of shot size to groove size in the original straight rifled barrels?

Thanks for your answers.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 02:01:33 AM by R.J.Bruce »

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9782
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2019, 03:33:10 PM »
Thanks for all the answers regarding straight rifling. I learned a lot that I did not know.

Mr. Prather, how deep is the rifling in the Getz barrel? Is it round bottom rifling?

Mike Brooks and Pukka Bundook, what was the relationship of shot size to groove size in the original straight rifles barrels?

Thanks for your answers.
Beats me, never shot a straight rifled gun. I have read...somewhere in an old document it seems....that the optimum shot size should fit nicely in the groove. As I said, I never tried it. would like to try some day though.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Ken Prather

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
    • TomBob Outdoors, LLC.
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2019, 04:38:58 PM »
You.d have to ask John Getz on the rifling specs. I am not sure. by feel. I'd guess they are not round bottom.

K
Galations 2:20

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6657
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2019, 08:01:09 PM »
They look round bottomed to me.

Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9782
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2019, 12:32:38 AM »
Yup, I'd guess 4's or 2's would work best in those grooves.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6657
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2019, 03:49:11 AM »
Ken - if it is a 20 bore, then 4's or possibly 6's, might work best for you.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9782
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2019, 02:46:06 PM »
Ken - if it is a 20 bore, then 4's or possibly 6's, might work best for you.
In a 20 bore (or any size bore) I personally use 4's for hunting everything. When I'm busting skeets I use 9's That gun, if I read my old theory right is going to need big shot to efficiently take advantage of that straight rifling. It looks to me that with the size of those grooves  a patched ball was the intended projectile.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Ken Prather

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
    • TomBob Outdoors, LLC.
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2019, 04:58:00 PM »
My usual shot load for my old 20 g fowler is a duplex load of #4 and $6. I use that for both birds and tree rats. I have not shot much yet with this new gun. Been busy building a shed and other to-do's lately. Looking forward to it.
Galations 2:20

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5725
Re: French inspired Colonial Fowler
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2019, 05:26:06 PM »
I have read that historically speaking the straight rifling may have been to give fouling a place to go? Straight rifling is sometimes found on modern shotguns and the idea is that they will help stabilize the projectile(s) and improve accuracy. Depending on who you talk to, some say it works some say it makes very little difference. Straight rifling is found in some original guns. John Getz did a beautiful job on this barrel. Looking forward to trying it out.

I have also read that the straight grooves were fouling traps.Maybe so.I think the
word "rifling" goes back to the old German "Riffeln" or to groove something..maybe.
Whoever made the grooves into a spiral probably fired the first accurate shot ever fired.
Bob Roller