General discussion > Gun Building

Question on barrel length and harmonics

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Darkhorse:
Granted some of this talk is over my head (most) but everything said is still relative to my 40+ years of rifle shooting. And I've developed  methods that I use on every problem rifle and ML I build.
First, I absolutely love the BOSS system. It took over a year but my .300 shoots 3 shots into a measured .250 " and after a cool down will put subsequent shots into the same hole. This is plenty good for a sporter weight hunter. Wherever that majic point in barrel harmonics is, this device allows a dedicated shooter to find it. We won't go into my load prep for these tests here.
So that proves  there is something to the harmonics issue. I just don't believe it affects ML barrels to a great extent.
After bad experiences with wood and humidity I seal every spot I possibly can on my ML's.
All my pin holes in the lugs are slotted and larger than the pin to prevent binding when the barrel gets hot or the wood possibly warps.
I must get cheap maple cause it always trys to warp down the barrel channel when wood is removed. So now I plan for this and try to leave enough inside and out to cut it out instead of bending the stock to pin the barrel. Bending the end of a stock can't help accuracy. Though I have one .54 that must be bent everytime the barrel is taken out and replaced and it has'nt seemed to hurt accuracy in the least.
This last may be blasphemy but I open up the mortice in the bottom of the barrel channel and a little up the sides, then glass bed the barrel with Accra Gel. I think it helps stabilize the wood and it makes me feel better.
And since I don't put a 24X scope on these flinters to check out the true accuracy all this is probably a moot point anyway.

Artificer:
Good post, Darkhorse

"All my pin holes in the lugs are slotted and larger than the pin to prevent binding when the barrel gets hot or the wood possibly warps."

This actually helps keep down negative nodes of vibration as well as for the reasons you mentioned.

Artificer:
I agree that most reenactors shoot very little or almost none at all and that is from French and Indian War (though not as much in that time period) through Civil War reenacting.  I've always thought that was a real shame and they were missing out on something fun and a real learning experience.  Also, how can you be as authentic if you have never shot live rounds in your period arm and don't know it's accuracy potential and how best to use it?  

When I was doing Continental Marine or an Early Trader/Free Trapper impression at Historic Fort Wayne (1812 period) - I knew exactly how well my Brown Bess Fusil (Carbine) shot and what it was capable of shooting - even with swan shot.  I competed with my flint longrifle so what I carried that at reenactments, I knew how it shot as well.  Heck, I even did some trapping so I knew something about that and wouldn't sound like a fool when I talked to the public.  When we did Brush's Company of Militia (1812 period) there and right after I got my Charleville Musket, I went out and shot it with live rounds.  I never shot it as much as my Bess, but I knew where it hit and what it was capable of doing.  

When I was doing Confederate Marine, I not only shot the two band Enfield rifle I carried for accuracy out to 200 yards, but actually shot a full 40 rounds one afternoon on the 100 meter range with the service minie' ball and 60 grain charges.  Bruised my shoulder pretty bad and it hurt bad for a couple days, but I KNEW what it was like to have shot a "full issue" of service loads.  Never, NEVER did that again, though.  Grin.  When I commanded a Confederate Infantry unit, I shot my Colt revolver a good deal to know what it was like and actually practiced the sword manual often with my built up/restored Model 1851 foot officer's sword.  

I've also seen on the opposite side.  I wish we could get more shooters interested in reenacting.  

At the NSSA Spring and Fall nationals for over a quarter of a century, I often heard comments about reenactors never firing a live round.  These were by guys who dressed up in Polyester "Gas Station Gray" or  "Blue Light Special Blue" work clothes with stripes and stuff sewn or stuck on them.  (I have to say the NSSA went to strongly encouraging authentic civil war clothing in the late 90's and early 21st century and most shooters now do dress pretty authentic.)  When I heard that about reenactors, I would ask them how many times they shot their rifle muskets with standard 60 grain powder charges.  Most of them had rarely if ever shot a service load as the charges they were using were around 30 grains.  When I told them I was a reenactor and had shot a full 40 rounds with 60 grain loads in a couple hours, they were a little embarrassed.  Some would say, "Yeah, Gus, but you're DIFFERENT."  

Innternational Muzzle Loading shooters shoot both original and reproduction long rifles and other rifles, muskets, fowlers, shotguns, revolvers and pistols and only a few of them re-enact.  They have found some very interesting things out, especially by shooting the originals, that really adds to our knowledge .

Back to longrifles, only.  Personally, I don't care how a person who buys, builds or has a long rifle built for him/herself uses the thing.  I'd like to see the person shoot it and reenact with it if they are so inclined,  but even if they only buy an authentic rifle to hang over the fireplace - that's one more rifle out there.  Maybe the next owner will shoot it if the current one doesn't.  What is important is that with each new long rifle built, we keep or have more builders entering and continuing to build the rifles.  It not only has kept the tradition alive, but those of us who have been around since the 60's or 70's have seen an incredible increase in parts and pieces that we only could dream about back then.  The advances in recreating some incredible pieces in these years has been dramatic.  So whatever  keeps things going and improving on longrifles, it is a blessing to anyone who is interested or will become interested in the future.

OK, I'm hopping off my soap box now.  Sorry to have gone astray from the subject.  

Darkhorse:
Forgot the "benchrest" issue in my earlier post.
Many years ago we had rifle, ML and shotgun competitions at several gun clubs across central Georgia. These shoots got quite competitive with ex-servicemen plus members of the Special Marksmanship unit at Ft. Benning often attending.
I was young and could only afford a Rem. 788 with a birch stock. I rebuilt the trigger assembly and floated the barrel and sealed the whole thing. The barrel was floated to the point where in 4 position shooting with a tight sling the POA never changed.
I did all my sighting in off a solid benchrest. Experience proved that I could then go to any position with or without a tight sling and if I did my part the rifle would shoot X's all day long.
All my eastern and western hunting to include several shots in excess of 400 yards all proved the same thing.
Same with my flintlocks or caplocks. I shoot a lot of squirrels with a .40 flint and all I go for is head shots. It doesn't matter if it's offhand, over a limb or against a tree. And the rifle is always sighted in off a bench.
It was only after I started participating in forums did I realize some folks couldn't achieve the same results. I just don't understand it with a good set up weapon.
I had excellent rifle training early on. All I can say is some of these people might need to get some of the same.
From my limited point of view either their techniques and rifles need a tuneup or they just can't shoot as well as they think.
Is there something I'm missing here?

PeterB:
Lots of good points here. I remember Lt Billy Anderson attending a centerfire bench shoot and a fellow lent him a gun and showed him the load to use (he rolled his own for the shoot). Billy simply said after that he followed the usual shooter's routine like putting little head pressure on the stock, etc. Yup, he won...and set a world record. The gun owner said he didn't even lend him his best gun. So knowing how to shoot is extremely important.

Centerfire guns are often free floated. As a custom gun maker, I never liked doing that, but my best gun made use of harmonics in anunusual way. There were two points of attachment to the stock at the barrel half way point which were variable in pressure bymicrometer adjustments. Through experience, the best accuracy was 9 clicks of pressure. This would be applied each time I shot the gun since moisture would change the pressure in between shootings.

Now a M/L barrel has many attachment points so this complicates the matter. These all change the harmonics of the gun to a point that would be hard to calculate.

One other point. Wood can significantly change points of impact due to moisure gain and loss. It is likely less important in M/L's since it is much thinner, but it is a good idea to lessen the change. Be sure to apply finish on the interior areas of the wood: barrel channel, under the lock, screw holes, interior of the patchbox, under the butt plate, etc. Another matter is the resistance of various finishes to moisture intrusion. Frankly, Linseed oil is $#@* for this point. Government tests rate its resistance at 15% while Tru-Oil which includes Linseed Oil in its formula is rated at 75%. That is 5 times better. Just a point to keep in mind for your next project. The two look a lot alike when finish is applied.

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