Author Topic: Another Swivel Breech (Read 21332 times)

redsquirrel · « **Reply #25 on:** August 15, 2008, 07:36:41 PM »

Lew,

David Price has complete swivel breech kits or I think he has just the action for sale. I hope this info helped you.

Steve

Dave Waters · « **Reply #26 on:** August 16, 2008, 05:16:39 AM »

Randy, That wender is realy shaping up. I went back and looked at the first picts that you sent me just to refresh my memory. It is looking great.

I'm sure it will shoot as good as it looks. I hope every one will go look at your progress pictures at

http://picasaweb.google.com/rsteffy/SwivelBreechFlintlock?authkey=prS-zX-PUEk

It looks like the modified hook breech concept worked well for you. It will realy be a blessing when you shoot her and need to clean her up.

I'm anxious to see the finish pics.

Dave Waters

acorn20 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 16, 2008, 08:06:17 AM »

Randy,
Great job on the swivel breech. I too share a fascination with wenders ever since laying hands on an original back in the early seventies. I've queried every gunmaker that has ever fashioned a swivel breech mechanism hoping to sop up whatever knowledge I could obtain. And then along comes Dave Waters and David Price. Where were these guys twenty or so years ago. I first met Dave Waters about five or so years ago at Dixon's Gun Makers Fair and David Price about three years ago. I settled on a David Price "kit" for lack of a better word. He'll assemble the action on the barrels or include the wood and furniture. The nice thing about his system is that if you want another set of barrels, say, a rifled barrel over smooth bore or two smooth bores, he can assemble them to the point that when you receive them they will attach right into your stock. I'm anxious to finish my rifle as I'd like to use it this fall in deer season. I'd love to meet three deer in particular that I missed over the last forty years of hunting with a flintlock. I'd have a .54 cal surprise for them after they finished watching the pretty blue smoke blow away.
Dan

Tenn Hills Guy · « **Reply #28 on:** August 16, 2008, 05:32:23 PM »

Where does the term 'Wender' originate? See it mentioned but it doesn't seem to turn up much if you search the term.

Rolf · « **Reply #29 on:** August 16, 2008, 05:49:51 PM »

"Wender" comes from the german verb "zu wende" that means " to turn".

Best regards

Rolfkt

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #30 on:** August 18, 2008, 12:05:35 AM »

Tenn Hills Guy,

You are seeing and interpreting the pics of my modification of the Dave Waters "modified hook breech" correctly. I did thread my custom breech plug to seat firmly on the seat or shoulder that occurs at the transition of rifling and plug threads, this being the plug's only stop. As I recall, I next milled the square's flats and reverse ramp. This is where the pair of ball-ended set screw tightens upon the plugs to pull and lock the barrels tightly to the swivel plate. I made a carefully fit box wrench to remove the square ended breechplug. Time with use and abuse will be the true test, but I expect good results from this design. I use Never-seize to keep the plug as free removing as possible. I am not sure if teflon tape is better or what else you fellows use.

Tenn Hills Guy · « **Reply #31 on:** August 18, 2008, 03:06:26 AM »

I like your method for the plug, perhaps a little more fitting effort but seems simpler-think I'll try to copy that! Like your wood work on the forestock-that looks labor intensive. To Rolf: Thanks, should have figured that out, guess that's why they also called 'em 'turn-over' guns!

Dave Waters · « **Reply #32 on:** August 18, 2008, 05:12:58 AM »

Hi,Tenn Hills Guy, Dave Waters here;
Double barrel guns can get heavy quick. The way to keep the weight down is use thinner swamped or tapered barrels. This helps with weight but creates another potential problem if you want to install a touch hole liner. Lighter barrels do not allow for enough safe thread engagement. (I ran into this in my first two swivel guns.) I solved the problem with the "modified hook breech" shown in my book. This design is actually a patent breech with a 3/8" chamber that allows for more side wall material which in turn accommodates a touch hole liner safely. Iv'e done it this way on every thing from 28 ga. shot barrel down to .25 cal. rifle. It works very well. One thing; on calibers smaller than .375 bore, make sure the chamber in the patent breech is the bore diameter or you will have difficulty pulling a patch out. I also carefully chamfer (60 deg.) both the mouth of the chamber and the lands of the rifling. This small chamfer allows the use of a patch with out hanging on a sharp shoulder.

I hope this helps. . . .

Dave Waters

Dphariss · « **Reply #33 on:** August 18, 2008, 04:58:18 PM »

Quote from: Dave Waters on August 18, 2008, 05:12:58 AM

Hi,Tenn Hills Guy, Dave Waters here;
Double barrel guns can get heavy quick. The way to keep the weight down is use thinner swamped or tapered barrels. This helps with weight but creates another potential problem if you want to install a touch hole liner. Lighter barrels do not allow for enough safe thread engagement. (I ran into this in my first two swivel guns.) I solved the problem with the "modified hook breech" shown in my book. This design is actually a patent breech with a 3/8" chamber that allows for more side wall material which in turn accommodates a touch hole liner safely. Iv'e done it this way on every thing from 28 ga. shot barrel down to .25 cal. rifle. It works very well. One thing; on calibers smaller than .375 bore, make sure the chamber in the patent breech is the bore diameter or you will have difficulty pulling a patch out. I also carefully chamfer (60 deg.) both the mouth of the chamber and the lands of the rifling. This small chamfer allows the use of a patch with out hanging on a sharp shoulder.

I hope this helps. . . .

Dave Waters

This is why I built patent breeches for the barrels on my swivel. Being a 5/8" breech thread they have a smaller diameter chamber but this is easily cleaned with a 410 shotgun mop.
Running the liner into the threads and then cupping the breach is another option with the liner also seating against a shoulder so all threads are sealed.
Both neatly bypass the thin barrel wall problem.
Dan

Tenn Hills Guy · « **Reply #34 on:** August 18, 2008, 05:30:37 PM »

Thanks for the words of wisdom! I have built the action around the 13/16th's barrel as in the design. I've been leaning toward a .45 cal, though at first, I was thinking .32. Seemed the larger bore would lessen the weight a bit. I am just beginning to inlet the rear stock and have a bit of tweaking to do on the action. Haven't bought barrels yet so your advice comes at a good time. Its been fun building this action! They seem intimidating at first but quite simple when you get into it. Hope these posts encourage some 'watchers' to start building!

Curtis · « **Reply #35 on:** August 18, 2008, 05:50:57 PM »

Quite beautifully done, Randall! I ran into Dave a couple of years ago at Friendship and was immediately impressed with his book and bought one on the spot. I think I will get a couple of more conventional builds under my belt before I start to work on the swivel breech but this year I picked up the trigger guard casting from Reeves G. Keep us informed with the progress, I would also like to hear some rang reports from you!

Curtis

Dphariss · « **Reply #36 on:** August 30, 2008, 07:39:53 AM »

Quote from: Tenn Hills Guy on August 18, 2008, 05:30:37 PM

Thanks for the words of wisdom! I have built the action around the 13/16th's barrel as in the design. I've been leaning toward a .45 cal, though at first, I was thinking .32. Seemed the larger bore would lessen the weight a bit. I am just beginning to inlet the rear stock and have a bit of tweaking to do on the action. Haven't bought barrels yet so your advice comes at a good time. Its been fun building this action! They seem intimidating at first but quite simple when you get into it. Hope these posts encourage some 'watchers' to start building!

I would be tempted to buy swamped barrels then shorten muzzle or muzzle and breech. This allows more wall thickness at the breech.
An A weight in 40 cal x 38" shortened at the breech and muzzle to 34" or so should allow the barrels to weigh little more than 7 pounds (based on TOWs catalog weights) so it should be possible to make a fairly long barreled swivel without exceeding 10.5 pounds or so.
The other option is to order custom barrels this would allow lighter barrels, as light as the barrel maker recommends anyway.
American flintlock rifles were not generally short even when double barreled. To me a swivel with barrels much under 36" starts to look "off".

Dan

Dave Waters · « **Reply #37 on:** September 01, 2008, 07:11:00 PM »

One more word on the barrel thing; I did one doing just what you said Dan. As you said, the barrels turned out just under 34" long. As far as the weight charts of TOW, the barrels didn't seem to be that heavy. For comparison, the barrels on my personal swivel breech are swamped, .45 cal. X 13/16 X 36" long. They only weigh 3# apiece, and my complete rifle only weighs 8-1/4 pounds. I wonder if TOW's weights are shipping weights?

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