Author Topic: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740  (Read 10369 times)

Offline Dave B

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Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« on: June 05, 2008, 08:08:43 AM »
I had posted these pictures once before but thought some of you may be interested in seeing some of these. I have always(from 3yrs old) like to take things apart to see how they were put together. One of these days I will get around to fixing this project but was interested in documenting the bits and parts. The full length pistol is a French pistol brought to the Oregon Gunmakers fair a few years ago.

 















« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 08:11:33 AM by Dave B »
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Jim Filipski

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 02:38:54 PM »
Dave,
Hey thanks for sharing these ......I also like seeing what is under the skin of old pieces like this. Hand forged & cut screws like that ate truly amazing.
Jim
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 04:23:55 PM »
Hey Dave those are really helpful pictures! about third ot fourth on my list is to build  a .50 or .54 pistol with an 11 or 12 inche barrel (legal deer gun) to go with one of my rifles. The top one looks like a winner. nice and slender.  Do you have any more pictures of it from different angles  and against a ruler etc??
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Offline Dave B

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 05:08:07 AM »
Here are some additonal photos with a tape measure and some new views.








The top view of the tang shows that the lock side panel is thicker than the side plate panel. The carving is mirrored but the left side of the tang is scaled to fit the width of the panel.







Dave Blaisdell

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 05:13:18 AM »
I like to see the differences in the way the metal decoration was done.

I don't know, but I am going to put this pout there:

For example, the buttcap shows it was pounded on the inside, which means any pre cast decoration would be damaged. So this would have been engraved AFTER the forming.

The pommel cap, guard and side plate needed no forming, and I believe they were cast with the detail cast right in, not chiseled later.

I say this, because I have been studying some German hdw, and it has all appearances of the detail being cast, with no evidence of chisel marks  or cleanup cuts from engravers showing, even deep down in the grooves and whorls.

I put this out there, because I want to know how this stuff was made.
Tom Curran's web site : http://tcurran.com/

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 05:15:03 AM »
Dave, you just posted a few more. Look at the depth of detail in the pommel cap, as opposed to the shallowness of the pommel itself.
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Offline Dave B

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 06:11:58 AM »
This is the top French holster pistol in the original opening  photo. It was made by Malardot,  Paris I think. It may have had a horn muzzle cap at one time but maybe not. It seems odd to have the end so squared off on such a nice pistol. It looks un finished.

















« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 05:18:08 PM by Dave B »
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Offline Dave B

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 06:28:26 AM »
Surprisingly enough except for the bow, the trigger guard is made from sheet stock brass it is seriously thin on the back strap. The pommel cap retainer is from sheet stock as well, with a soldered brass shank pin. The thumb piece is cast.






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Offline E.vonAschwege

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 08:09:22 PM »
AH, I LOVE IT!!! 

I have a thing for these continental pistols, such style and grace!  For more eye candy once you're done drooling over Dave's pistols, check out: http://www.antiek.net/bolkantiques/imgindex.cfm?cat=1209&subcat=2186

Tom, I would have said the same thing about the peened pommel vs the cast cap.  Without looking too hard, it appeared that the cap had a lot more detail, depth, and cleanup, while the pommel clearly shows the details of engraving, and doesn't have stippled backgrounds. 

I'll post some photos of my French pistol hardware, the buttcap is a huge bulbous affair, but is entirely swaged/forged out of iron. 

Dave, it appears the wrist inlay is fastened with a bolt coming up from under the backstrap, is that how it is?  I guess pinning it permanantly would have meant more care and time would be needed when filing the pins flush.

Would you mind posting a photo of the inside of the French lock?  Thanks for sharing!!
-Eric
Former Gunsmith, Colonial Williamsburg www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 09:35:28 PM »
Wow, That is quite a site Eric. 

Dave These guns are terrific.  Appreciate your taking the time to take and post the photos!!
De Oppresso Liber
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Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2008, 12:05:47 AM »
Phew I saw a nice long English pistol on there... 4000 pounds!!!!!!
De Oppresso Liber
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Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Dave B

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 04:27:36 AM »
This is the internal lock view from the french pistol



Eric,
the bolt that retains the thumb piece can be seen in the trigger plate view above. The  screw next to the thumb piece is the retaining bolt. The longer one is one of the lock bolts.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 04:32:42 AM by Dave B »
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2008, 02:37:34 PM »
Ah, the Frenchies use a smaller dia screw for the front, bigger for the rear of the lock.

It looks like a raised bolster for the front screw.....is it true? That is awesome. Most old locks lose their threads in the thin front plate, and usually the screw loses it's threads.


Dr. Tim, that's why I got into building...I couldn't ever afford to buy what I wanted, and didn't do well at trading guns to get what I wanted.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 02:40:03 PM by Acer Saccharum »
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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 04:50:26 PM »
Phew I saw a nice long English pistol on there... 4000 pounds!!!!!!

WOW, and people think the Walker is a heavy pistol!

Offline Dave B

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 06:54:41 PM »
Acer,
You are right. There is a bolster at the hole of the front lock bolt. The Dutch pistols lock also has this feature.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 09:29:53 PM »
Phew I saw a nice long English pistol on there... 4000 pounds!!!!!!

WOW, and people think the Walker is a heavy pistol!

HAsn't the snow melted so you can get out yet???
De Oppresso Liber
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Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Z. Buck

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2008, 12:21:46 AM »
Here here Tom, between wanting things i couldn't afford and never being happy with something "off the shelf" that is why i started gunsmithing, as well and knife making and so on and so forth, story of my life really. these pics are fabulous, thanks everyone who has posted!, Zack
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Offline Stophel

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2008, 11:14:17 PM »
The bosses on the lockplate nose for the front screw is not uncommon on European locks.  I have a German lock that has the boss.

When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2008, 11:24:11 PM »
I've got a worn out gun very much like that, but mine doesn't have Mastricht on the barrel  :(

I suspect Algiers  ;D





Offline Collector

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2008, 07:14:41 PM »
Robin, Welcome to the forum.  Your flintlock pistol, more than likely, was manufactured in a European country (Germany was very prominent,) for what was termed the "Eastern Trade."  You've got a very nice pistol, by-the-way.

Offline Dave B

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2008, 12:00:47 AM »
Robin,
I like that pistol. Thanks for sharing it with us. What is the barrel length and caliber?
Dave Blaisdell

Robin Hewitt

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Re: Original Details. Dutch Holster pistol circa 1740
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2008, 03:01:44 PM »
16 bore, 14 1/2" barrel.

I still reckon it's a hunk of junk  ::)  ;D