horn style for 1779"

[brokenflint]

What would I be looking at for a powder horn, circa 1779 in Northern New Jersey (Sussex Cty) / NY State (Warwick or Goshen) area?  Any originals I can take a look at?  Thanks

Broke

[Cory Joe Stewart]

I will do some looking in the books.

Coryjoe

[Randy Hedden]

You could always carry an F&I War or Rev War map horn.  Many of these type horns show sites and forts from New York City up to Lake Ontario and Montreal.

Randy Hedden

[brokenflint]

Thanks Cory and Randy

[smorrison]

If you know someone who has a copy of Dresslar's "The Engraved Powder Horn", it has many examples of horns from that time period and location. 

Scott M.

[Randy Hedden]

Broke,

I believe there are some regional style horns from the New York area.  However, I am not up on horns from that area so hesitate to try and describe any of them.  Some horns that I see called New York horns are rather nondescript and are identifiable only by the Butt plug.  I think there was a somewhat unique horn used in the Hudson Valley area, but would not know where to tell you to look for examples.  Perhaps Lee Larkin, Mike Small or Shelby Gallien will chime in on this thread??

The only New York area horns you are going to find in Jim Dresslar's horn book are scrimshawed horns.

Randy Hedden

[brokenflint]

Scott   I'll see if I can run down a copy of the Dresslar book.  Thanks

Randy  If you happen to run across anything (plain or scrimmed) please post a shot if you can.  I have no idea what to look for design wise and am looking for a starting point so I can identify one if I see it.   IIRC this geographical region lays closser to the Old Kings Road than Hudson Valley, if that makes any difference as the distances are not really that great to begin with.   

Thanks

[Tim Crosby]

 I would think a screw tip would work for you. I am not sure exactly where you are in NJ but take a look at the attached and see if one of those eastern Pa counties would be close enough. For instance;How far from Philadelphia are you? In the time frame you mention Philly was the second largest English speaking city in the world, London being first. As a hub of commerce I would think a person living in your area may have had occasion to go there.
 Just a thought.

 Tim C. 

http://hornguild.org/wst_page8.html

[brokenflint]

Hey Tim  I'm a GawGa boy NJ is  just a time frame / location I have an interest in LOL.  thanks for the link to the horners guild, I forgot all about it.  I'm sure there was commerce between northern NJ / New York City / Phila as my ancestors where teamsters (as well as farmers) in the area during this time

Broke

[G-Man]

Plain horns can cover a wide range of timeframes and regions.  I would think you couldn't go wrong with a plain horn with a pierced lip, flat plug, and a raised trumpet, paneled or plain shaped spout.  Or no pierced lip, a flat to slightly convex plug, and an iron staple or nail for attachment.  Some folky personalized engraving or detail cuts around the spout or base would be fine too.

Madison Grant showed examples of what he described as the "classic" 18th century plain horn.  Including a couple of plain horns that were "found" or "came out of" the New Jersey/New York area, and he attributed to the general timeframe you are interested in.  Of course, where a horn was found does not mean that is where it was made.... 

That is not to say you could not go with a fancier F&I-Rev. War era engraved horn - Hudson or Mohawk Valley, etc. Or a  screw tip as described in one of the other posts.  Just that when you start getting more into more stylized and professionally made horns, then you need to be more careul about the style being plausible for the area and time you are interested in, if that is one of your objectives.  If you really want it to represent something from 1779 northern New Jersey, there are a few obvious styles that might look out of place for that time and area, like a Carolina banded horn, a Tansel style horn, etc.

Good luck

Guy

[brokenflint]

Guy  my initial plan of attack was just a plain horn, slightly domed cap w/ staple.  Then I thought, hmm scrimmed map of the surrounding location would be nice.  That prompted the style question.  I'm not a real fan of the folk art type of horns, I appreciate what they are but my interest is more in the F&I / Rev War map horns.  But for this particular project I don't want to go all out so to speak on spouts, engrailing, scrim etc, but I do want to add a little interest beyond the plain jane horn.

Broke

[G-Man]

Broke - sorry - I misunderstood your question - I thought you were asking about basic horn styles of the period rather that types of maps horns.

The map horns that I have seen are associated with military campaigns, roads or forts.  I have seen a lot of contemporary map horns that people make of areas they are interested in or live in, and I am not saying they did not exist in the 1700s, but the original map horns I've seen are associated with the military campaigns, roads and forts, sometimes made there, sometimes made as commerative horns.   So you have the Hudson and Mohwawk Valley horns, "Forbes Road" horns, the Grant Expedition horn that documents a campaign against the Cherokee, the Fort Pitt, Fort Edward, Ticonderoga, Crown Point horns, etc.  

So for 1779-ish, map horn in that area, I could see a horn showing the New York area forts or campaigns of 1776, or perhaps some of the New Jersey area battles from the intervening period.   Or a Mohawk Valley horn (Oriskany, Fort Stanwix etc.).  

Or maybe a map of Sullivan's campaign against the Iroquois towns in 1779 - upper Mohawk valley and upper Susquehanna headwaters regions - something akin to the Grant Expedition/Cherokee horn.  I've not seen a Sullivan Campaign horn, but I would not be surprised if some were made.

Here is some info on Sullivan's Campaign and a period  map of the campaign you can enlarge.  Apparently, there were troops from New Jersey, New York, Pennslvania, Virginia and the New England states and a lot of involvement by riflemen.  The campaign had profound consequences for the Iroquois.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/1998/sullivan.html

http://sullivanclinton.com/maps/images/iroquoisinvasion.jpg

Good luck

Guy

[brokenflint]

Guy  no you where spot on in assuming I was asking about basic horn styles of the period.  I have very little historical background knowledge of horns.  I knew map horns existed in the time frame and they have had my interest but I was also looking for an overall view of the period to further research out my plan of attack. 

Let me further explain what is going on here.  I have an ancestor who lived in the area around Goshen / Warwick NY with other family members in Sussex County NJ, more or less right over the border.  Others of my ancestors there where farmers and teamsters, this particular ancestor we really don't know is occupation.  He was killed at the Battle of Minisink July 22, 1779 at 19 years old.  I am planning to do an American Fowler which seems to be appropriate for him (if he was in fact a farmer) with a powder horn to go with it.  I liked the idea of keeping the horn simple(for this project), maybe a domed cap w/ staple, step at throat, and simple map of the area ie towns of Warwick, goshen Delaware river and battle site.   But I would like for the horn to be a reasonable facsimile of the time and place.

Suggestions more than welcome, thanks 

Broke