Author Topic: Help for the right patch  (Read 4818 times)

Offline 54Bucks

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Help for the right patch
« on: December 23, 2009, 07:57:49 PM »
 Need a little help.Tried to shoot my .54 to get ready for Pa.'s late F.L.Season. Some precut patches that are marked .020.They are not as thick as they are supposed to be and run too easy with a .530 ball. Can anyone point me towards a good material that is an honest .020 or better yet .022 thick? Perhaps one of the denims? Later when I have more time I will pick up a .535 mold and work on a different combination. Thanks! and Merry Christmas.

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 08:10:12 PM »
 I  found "bull denium" at JoAnn's Fabrics which is .022" after washing. 

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 09:00:49 PM »
JoAnn Fabrics is where I get most of my patching.  Take a caliper with you and measure.  You can buy in quarter or half yard lengths, which is enough for economical testing.

I use some JoAnn's pillowticking, all cotton in my .54 Colerain barrel and 527 RB. After washing it mics to .020 if I put pressure on the caliper (.024 if I just make light contact with the jaws).  Their stock number is 1120070 for it. 


SCL
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 09:08:57 PM by SCLoyalist »

Offline Frank

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2009, 01:41:30 AM »
JoAnn fabrics, after washing, 40 cotton drill .017, pillow ticking .022, cotton duck .027.  Take your pick.

Daryl

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 02:07:58 AM »
54 bucks - try to find a denim marked 10oz. or perhaps heavier yet, 12 oz.  These run about .018" and .024"/.025" with a micrometer. With the calipers, squeezed snuggly between the fingers, they go about .0215" and .028" - both measured after washing.  Store bought OxYoke .018" patches I have measured, as they shot like thinner material, only mic'd .014". It is no wonder they failed. I finally threw them out as nothing I had liked them.
We normally use the 10oz denim or same thickness ticking with a ball that is .005" under bore (.395", .445", .495", .535", .575", .615" for example) size in normal .010"/.012" rifling depth to about .016" max, no deeper as there is only .003" copmpression per side in the deeper rifling.  The same cloth will usually be ok (without burning) with a ball .010" under, but the accuracy has always been better with the larger ball - for me.

This is how I find a ball/patch combinaton that will work - every time.
1/. Measure your patch material with calipers, squeezing the tines together with thumb and forefinger over the patch & record that measurement.

2/. Measure your groove diameter.

3/. Then subtract the groove diameter from double the patch thickness + the ball diameter.  For expample - .535" ball + .0215patch +  .0215patch = .578" total ball and patch - .564"(groove diameter with .012"depth rifling) = .014" divided by 2 = .007" compression per side.  This combination will shoot well.

4/. If this number gives a compression of around .005" to .010" as above, it will be a descent combination that will withstand a good heavy hunting charge. 

Most rifle and smoothbore muzzles need polishing (smoothing the sharp edges of the angled crown) to allow loading tight combinations without cutting the patch.  Your thumb and a piece of 320 emery will do that job well.

Offline 54Bucks

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2009, 04:57:12 AM »
 Thanks for the response guys.I'll head to the fabric store tomorrow with my calipers and get something to work for the short term.Then pick up a .535 mold later and do some extended trial and error to get the right accuracy combo when good weather and time allows. (I don't have an accurate way to measure the bore @land and grooves)
 I should mention that this applies to my Colerain .54 cal. x 44" C wt. barrel with round bottom rifling. I've noticed that there are many variations in how the same(supposedly the same)patch materials and barrel bores measure out. For example: the red stripped ticking I picked up at a large fabric shop measures .019 max. after I rinsed out the sizing and dried it. And if I were to try a .527 ball and this ticking combo,I'de probably not need a starter and could push this ball home with only 2 fingers on the ramrod.
 Just to repeat and warn any others who use Hoppes #9 Plus. NEVER LET IT IN THE BORE AROUND A BALL FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD.I recently did just that! After an unsuccessfull early season(1 week) I blew the charge out with my  CO 2 discharger and found the orange ring on the patch and the rusty ring in the bore near the breech over the powder charge area. I got it cleaned and polished out after considerable effort.But I can assure Darryl that there are no sharp edges in this bore now.

Daryl

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2009, 05:51:30 AM »
Nasty about the rust.

I've tried combinations that load easily, but always found them to foul the bore badly, burn up the patches and shoot even worse. Guess it depends on what a guy is happy with. Afterall, a loose load that destroys patches in the .69 (but still needs a starter), will shoot into 4 1/2" at 50 yards.  i guess if yo're happy with that and don't mind having to wipe out the bore to load it, go for it.

The last mattress ticking I bought in a sewing shop measured an even .030" at the store, but once washed, it was .020"- and I have a very gentle washer - side load. Many fabrics gain a thousanth, or lose a thousanth - this is the first one I've found lost .010".

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2009, 06:00:46 PM »
YIKES! Thanks for the heads up on the #9 plus. When I read your post I thought "I have had my gun loaded for 5 days with #9 plus as a patch lube".

I ran out to the shop and pulled my ball, it came out without the patch, bad sign.

I cleaned out the powder, no discernible rough spots but I gave the breech area a through scotch bright pad and Balistol scrubbing to be on the safe side.

Daryl

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 06:13:26 PM »
YIKES! Thanks for the heads up on the #9 plus. When I read your post I thought "I have had my gun loaded for 5 days with #9 plus as a patch lube".

I ran out to the shop and pulled my ball, it came out without the patch, bad sign.

I cleaned out the powder, no discernible rough spots but I gave the breech area a through scotch bright pad and Balistol scrubbing to be on the safe side.

This is the same result Taylor had with his testing as well. 5 days outside during the winter time (freezing), with bringing into the house in every night which frosted it up then dried by morning to be put out again, but didn't get any rust using Hope's #9 Plus.  Sometimes conditions seem right for trouble to happen, though, it seems.

Offline sonny

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2009, 06:30:05 PM »
I use oxyoke 1000 wonder patch in 20 thou with .530 horn ball an patches come out good enought to use over.........sonny

Daryl

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Re: Help for the right patch
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2009, 03:59:15 AM »
A really good test for patches is to do just that. Collect them after a shooting session on the range, re-lube them and use them on the trail.  I've done this several times just to prove a point. Collecting them after the second shot shows a patch without any cuts or burns - using Winshield Washer fluid & soap, spit, mink oil or neestfoot oil for lube.

I once shot a 5 shot group (when I could shoot accurately) with the very same patch, re-lubing it for each shot - load awas 4 1/2 drams 2F(125gr.), in the .69.  My 50 yard offhand group was 2 1/2" centre to centre - all inside a 3" circle. I was satisfied with that. .022" denim (thin 12oz.) and a .684" ball in a .69 cal. rifle.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 04:47:28 PM by Daryl »