Author Topic: Restocked Musket  (Read 5468 times)

Offline Jim Filipski

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Restocked Musket
« on: June 14, 2008, 06:51:43 PM »
Hey Guys,
Thought you would like to see some pics of an old gun that came into my shop back in 2003. I don't have a lot of photos just the few that I could get while it was there.The owner said I have use of them so is ok.

I have to go through my notes ( here somewhere) for more specs; but as it stands The owner got it from a Boston residence many years ago. He was told it was used in the American Revolution. From the looks of it maybe the parts saw service at that time but this is a definite later restock using unmatched pieces. At first before I saw it, I thought he was describing a Committee of Safety musket which would be way kool to see. When he brought this to me, while I'm sure it has history, it is far from this style.
The trigger guard is French 18th C, broken but inlet for the break. The lock has been hard to trace. Obviously English ( Bess)  tower lock with the crown but the Danzig overstamp is very interesting. A reused Bess lock or possibly  an entire Bess bought up by another Country and remarked? Then the lock reused on this piece? Brass pan on a tower lock not common. possibly the original was burned through and refit with brass(?) I believe from what I could tell at the time, bore is about .69"  Hey and that trigger pull distance is 15 inches !

For you enjoyment, inspection & comments
Jim

P.S. If you bring these images down to your computer they will be nice & big without using up our bandwith here! I love this new site







« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 07:01:10 PM by JWFilipski »
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Offline Dave B

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Re: Restocked Musket
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2008, 07:32:59 AM »
That is very interesting, thanks for sharing with us. The story these old bits could tell it they could talk.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline E.vonAschwege

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Re: Restocked Musket
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2008, 11:21:42 PM »
Interesting musket restock Jim.   Talk about a long triggerpull...   

That lock puzzles me.  The lockplate is typical of the french muskets, which the US locks were based upon (and German too I think).  Looks a lot like an 1816 Musket lock doesn't it?  There are lots of small differences between the US, French, and German locks, but the flat plate, rounded tail, and seperate pan are all the same style.  Your theory about replacing a burnt out pan with the brass one could hold water, I don't recall England ever producing a lock like this (at least, I can't find it in any books or TRS catalog). 

You know, I was going to say that perhaps the Danzig was the primary stamp, then the Tower was added... but I saved the photo and looking closely the Tower stamp is much more worn, while the Danzig is more crisp.   Suppose they took an older English lock and remade it into a German pattern at Danzig?   That's real thin isn't it... Ya got me!  Thanks for sharing,
-Eric
Former Gunsmith, Colonial Williamsburg www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com

Offline Jim Filipski

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Re: Restocked Musket
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 02:02:57 AM »
The lockplate is typical of the french muskets, which the US locks were based upon (and German too I think).  Looks a lot like an 1816 Musket lock doesn't it?  There are lots of small differences between the US, French, and German locks, but the flat plate, rounded tail, and seperate pan are all the same style.  Your theory about replacing a burnt out pan with the brass one could hold water, I don't recall England ever producing a lock like this (at least, I can't find it in any books or TRS catalog). 

-Eric
[/quote

Eric,
My one problem is the tower stamp & Crown. The Brits aren't going to go stamping French locks
But I know what you mean about the style. I'm thinking it to be a 3rd Model Bess ( Possibly sea service ...explaines the Brass pan)  But I have know way to be sure
Jim
" Associate with men of good quality,  if you esteem your own reputation:
for it is better to be alone than in bad company. "      -   George Washington

"A brush of the hand
of Providence is behind what is done with good heart."

Offline TPH

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Re: Restocked Musket
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 12:00:55 AM »
I like the new Forum! (Sorry had to say it somewhere....  ;D )

The musket is interesting, a stocking of old parts from several different sources with the work probably done in the New England area as late as the mid-19th Century? The lock is definitely French (a French M17777 or Napoleonic-era Model Year 9) and all of the markings, I am afraid are spurious, probably done in this country at the time of the stocking. The inclined brass  pan is original to that lock, but the wear on the side is interesting. The frizzen is a replacement, it is not the proper frizzen for that lock, how does it fit the pan? Is it too wide for the pan? Maybe the pan's side was filed to allow the frizzen to fit?  As Eric said, the US copied the French 1777 - Year 9 lock for our M1816, but the Prussian muskets differed greatly from the French muskets. It is possible that the lock was surplussed in this country after the US National Armories and contractors were up and running, many French and British musket parts had been kept for use in building muskets for the new country and complete, functional muskets were issued to US troops and the state militias.

Are there any proof marks on the barrel, what is its length? It is an interesting old musket, stocked very much like some of the so called "New England Militia Muskets" and later modified to fool collectors in the late 19th Century who were looking for a Revolutionary War musket for the place of honor over the fireplace.
T.P. Hern

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: Restocked Musket
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 07:49:36 PM »
Neat gun but I think TPH is onto something with the spurious marks on the lock. They just don't look right.
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana