AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Jim Kibler on January 15, 2011, 12:53:22 AM

Title: Lock
Post by: Jim Kibler on January 15, 2011, 12:53:22 AM
Here are a few photos of the lock I recently built.  It's a mid eighteenth century british lock based on one by John Harman.  Everything is pretty close to the original except the cock.  The original cock has had some work and reshaping done to it and is not representative of what it would have been originally.  This lock still needs to be engraved and case hardened.  Sorry for the poor photography.  Seems to look better when viewing it in hand.  Oh, when adding photos, a rifle I built a year or so ago caught my eye so I included it as well.  Let me know if you have any questions.

Jim

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi124.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp24%2Fjkibler1%2FIMG_1064a.jpg&hash=663bca46ea713c5aff3555b52f62b58e3cd1cbe7)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi124.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp24%2Fjkibler1%2FIMG_1062a.jpg&hash=85d5dd093f5a2c9d65adf2ac35748cd83a24d565)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi124.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp24%2Fjkibler1%2FIMG_1063a.jpg&hash=47c4542e3a7b827bc7422d715745a8af985b851a)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi124.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp24%2Fjkibler1%2FIMG_1060a.jpg&hash=cc47df6f061d2fbdcb2893adf0978527ee533495)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi124.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp24%2Fjkibler1%2Fsullivan%2FIMG_0874.jpg&hash=6208a4e5c98ebdec629ecb2dcf0389c7bb14de6c)
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: northmn on January 15, 2011, 01:00:14 AM
Very interested on details on building the lock.  How many hours etc.

DP
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Dennis Glazener on January 15, 2011, 01:02:35 AM
Jim,
Nice work on both lock and rifle. Let me know when you go into production on the lock, love the looks of it!
Dennis
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Dave Waters on January 15, 2011, 01:03:21 AM
Beautiful! Great craftsmanship!!! Curious, what grit is the finish?
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: bp on January 15, 2011, 01:21:23 AM
Very nice.
Is that a roller on the mainspring foot?
Bruce
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Cory Joe Stewart on January 15, 2011, 01:38:25 AM
Where did you get that buttplate, or did you cast it yourself?

Coryjoe
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: A.Merrill on January 15, 2011, 01:54:41 AM
    Don't you just love locks and this is a great one. How does she spark?  Are you going to be making more of these locks to sell?    Love your carving.    AL
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Tim Crosby on January 15, 2011, 02:04:43 AM
 WOW Jim, great detail, looks very tight and the finish is top of the line, very elegant.  Outstanding workmanship.

 Tim C.   
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: smylee grouch on January 15, 2011, 02:19:24 AM
Jim: Both lock and gun look great, both look like I have come to expect coming out of you shop. Top notch in every respect. I am sure every one would like to see more of the gun. What type of build is the lock going on? Will look forward to more.    Gary
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: James Rogers on January 15, 2011, 02:31:23 AM


Not French enough to me!  ;D ;) :D


Super work Jim! I am still comparing it to the Harmon lock pics. WONDERFUL


James
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Larry Pletcher on January 15, 2011, 02:31:35 AM
Hi Jim,
Your lock is really impressive, but what I drool over is your carving!  I never tire of looking at your decoration.
Regards,
PLetch
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Jim Kibler on January 15, 2011, 03:23:09 AM
Thanks everybody :)  The lock is going on a fowling piece based on one built by John Harman of London likely in the 1750's.  Number of hours to build the lock?  That's a tough question, but I have at least six weeks in it and probably a little more than that.  I had to re-make the sear since it cracked when being hardened and the mainspring since it cracked shortly after being installed.  The mainspring does have a roller on the tip.  The frizzen has a roller as well.  Grit of finish?  Probably somewhere around 320-400 right now.  I may finish it a touch finer before engraving, but I don't polish to a really high finish as it looks out of place to me.  No sparks yet as the frizzen hasn't been hardened.   It's made of mild steel and will be carburized with the cock, plate etc.  The butplate shown on the rifle is one of Reeve's that has been resphaped a tad.  It started as one he took from a German rifle.  I'm not sure the number, but it is similar to the one he took from his Virginia rifle with the feather like carving.  Anyway I beat the heel out some and put some additional curve in it.  Thanks again guys!

Jim
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Ben I. Voss on January 15, 2011, 03:44:27 AM
Alright, where do I go to sign the pact with the devil so I can do that too?! Beautiful work, Jim.
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: greybeard on January 15, 2011, 03:59:27 AM
Gorgeous work to be sure. Near brings a tear to me eye with that carving .
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: KLMoors on January 15, 2011, 04:50:42 AM
Wow, beautiful work on both pieces. It always amazes me what a beautiful piece of art a lock can be.
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Jim Chambers on January 15, 2011, 05:09:28 AM
Let's see....six weeks of work at $18 per hour. (A modest wage for a skilled worker.)  That would put the price of the lock at $4,320, and it would be a bargin at that price.  Absolutely beautiful work.  And, the carvin ain't bad either.
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Blacksmoke on January 15, 2011, 09:22:24 AM
Mr Kibler:  As usual your workmanship is outstanding!  In admiration - Hugh Toenjes
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Rasch Chronicles on January 15, 2011, 12:42:33 PM
Nice!

I love the subtle tones of the finish. and the balance is beautiful.

Best Regards,
Albert A Rasch (http://www.free-press-release.com/news-albert-rasch-and-in-afghanistan-it-s-been-a-long-road-1292793394.html)
Albert A Rasch In Afghanistan™  (http://inastan.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: hoochiepapa on January 16, 2011, 01:32:18 AM
Beautiful!! Both!
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: B Shipman on January 16, 2011, 08:59:20 AM
That carving is a bit more, in my opinion, than great craftsmanship. Clean, perfect coverage and flow. Those little dots and teardrops immensely time consuming to clean up. The little teardrops representing traditional minor attached scrolls. It's beyond that. It's a work of art. Well within the frame of tradition yet entirely unique.
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: bama on January 16, 2011, 09:52:40 PM
Jim thanks for showing us the pictures of your lock and the rifle. It hs been a pleasure to admire your work and to watch you work at WKU. You are a true and dedicated craftsman and I hope that your talents get even better over time if that is possible. 8)
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Ed Wenger on January 17, 2011, 04:04:05 AM
Jimmy, thanks for sharing your superb work.  Outstanding in all regards!

        Ed
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: C Wallingford on January 17, 2011, 04:26:34 AM
Looks great Jim. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Robby on January 17, 2011, 04:32:06 PM
Golly, I'd be trying to figure out a way to mount that lock so I could see the inside as well as the outside! Really nice!! How do you achieve that black oxidized look on the wood? Thanks for showing both.
Robby
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Jim Kibler on January 17, 2011, 05:20:12 PM
Robby,

I don't remember for sure, but the color you mentioned is most likely just soot worked into the finish.  The idea is to build up layers and not try to do too awful much all at once.  Also I've found it's best to get as much color on the stock as early in the finish process as possible as the wood provides a place fro the color to grab hold of.  When doing this type of work, I've also found it best to use almost a dry brush technique and use very little finish when building up the layers of color.

Thank again everyone.  Please just ask if you think I can help.  Over the years people have been extremely helpful to me and I'll gladly pass on what I can.  Hope these photos have maybe sparked some ideas and interest.

Good luck,
Jim
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: tallbear on January 17, 2011, 06:03:22 PM

Jim
As always I enjoy seeing your work.Thanks for posting!!!

All The Best!!
Mitch
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: keweenaw on January 17, 2011, 08:59:43 PM
Great lock Jim, right on the original - really helps to have the original in hand when you make a copy doesn't it?  I'm sure Gary is going to love it.

Tom
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: northmn on January 17, 2011, 09:41:20 PM
Roller on the main spring sounds interesting.  Smoothes things out or what?

DP
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Tom Currie on January 17, 2011, 10:10:19 PM
I'll second everything Bill said about the carving. Really nice Jim.
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Jim Kibler on January 17, 2011, 11:21:09 PM
Roller on the main spring sounds interesting.  Smoothes things out or what?

DP

Yep, the idea behind it is to reduce friction.  It seem to help the lock function smoothly, but in the end I suspect it's benefit is pretty small.  I have been suprised to realize how quickly the flintlock developed after its inception.  I have a flintlock by Thuraine, the well known Parisian gunsmith of the mid to late 17th century, built around 1670 and it is amazing how good this lock is.  This lock is pretty much at a complete state of development.  The British may have added rollers, links waterproof pans etc at the end of the flint period, but these things aside, the lock is at pretty much a fully evolved state on the example mentioned above.  I'll try to post some pictures in time and maybe it will spawn some good discussion.
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Telgan on January 18, 2011, 12:54:39 AM
Jim, Any chance we could see a touch more of the carving on this rifle? Maybe front end of cheek piece and perhaps the tang area. Just a joy to behold what you have done.  Thanks for posting it. Tom
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Dphariss on January 18, 2011, 01:19:42 AM
Very nice work on rifle and lock.
I really like the shaping of the springs.

Dan
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Jim Kibler on January 18, 2011, 01:39:42 AM
Tom,

Here are a couple additional photos.

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi124.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp24%2Fjkibler1%2Fsullivan%2FIMG_0873a.jpg&hash=316dfbb37e6299e2681ccb8a1b389a64d933b4ab)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi124.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp24%2Fjkibler1%2Fsullivan%2FIMG_0865a.jpg&hash=542c6f8271c986d9feb1624f26775df3fd76283a)
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: KLMoors on January 18, 2011, 02:07:33 AM
Wow. Jim, how do you keep the edges so crisp on your carving. I find that no matter how careful I am cleaning up the background, I round my edges some.  Do you re-cut it along the edges after you clean up?  Incredible work.
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: okieboy on January 18, 2011, 06:43:41 AM
 May I ask, Jim, about those beautiful springs? Do they start with 1075? Is much of the work done in the forge or just the bending and heat treating? They surely are art applied to the functional. 
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Jim Kibler on January 18, 2011, 05:17:46 PM
okieboy,

I'm much more of a machinist than a blacksmith so I do very little forge work in making a lock.  The springs are made of O1 tool steel.  1075 would be just as good.  The key is to just adjust the tempering temperature of the material selected to end up with a final spring hardness in the low to mid 40's on the Rockwell C scale.  It's a simple matter to reference a tempering chart to get an idea what temperatures to use.  A person my get away with a harder spring, but it becomes much more sensitive to defects (which all material has) and prone to breakage with no benefit. 

Capt Fred,

I stab in most of the carving with gouges chisels etc.  I remove the background as cleanly as possible with chisels and in particular use a skew chisel quite a bit.  Careful sanding can be done on the background in the more wide open spaces, but close to intricate carving you are forced to do mostly scraping.  The key is to get the background cut well initially so it needs little clean up work.  In some areas I re-cut the edge of the carving to get a cleaner edge.  For this I use a skew chisel as a knife.  It's actually just beveling the edge a tiny amount.  the point at the base of the carving stays the same.  The key with this is learning to control the skew chisel or knife and watching the grain carefully.

Jim
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: G-Man on January 18, 2011, 08:19:59 PM
Fine work Jim.  You are doing the original justice. Can't wait to see the whole gun.

Guy
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Rolf on January 19, 2011, 01:52:19 AM
Very beautiful lock and rifle. How is the pan and bolster attached to the lockplate?

Best regards
Rolfkt
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: Jim Kibler on January 19, 2011, 03:14:14 AM
Rolfkt,

The pan is integral with the plate.  All the same piece of material.  This was the English way in the time period of this lock.  I understand that in the period the pan was actually folded over with the aid of a forging die.  I made the plate and pan from a thick piece of material.  Anybody know when the British began producing locks with non detachable pans?  The French and therefore English style at the turn of the 18th century was a detachable pan, but at some point this style was abandoned by the English.

Guy,

I not only want to do justice to the original Harman gun, I want to improve on it! 

Thanks everybody,
Jim
Title: Re: Lock
Post by: KLMoors on January 19, 2011, 04:38:54 AM
Thanks for the tips Jim. Beautiful work, truly inspirational.