AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: yip on January 28, 2011, 11:32:56 PM
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does anyone know where one can buy aquafortis? t.o.t.w. don't sell it anymore. or the purchace nitic acid?
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yip try Cain outdoors, just got a bottle form them.
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thanks quickdraw; i see they carry it. i hope!
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you can get it straight from the maker........
WAHKON BAY AQUAFORTIS 2 oz. $8.95. Tru-Coat, Tru-Brown or Tru-Blue 2 oz. bottles $6.95. S/H $12.50 up to six bottles. Continental U.S. ground shipping only. Gunbuilder and dealer quantities available.
MICHAEL LEA AND DAUGHTER,
2109 Summit Street, Columbus OH 43201.
Telephone 614-291-4757, email <oldguns2109@sbcglobal.net>. Visa/MC.
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When I was looking for it a couple years ago nobody had it supposedly because of tighter hazardous shipping regs. so I made my own. Preiser Scientific Supply had it but you must have a business licence to buy it. I made mine with 3 parts distilled water and one part nitric acid in a stone jar and then slowly added steel wool till it no longer would eat up the steel. This is really nasty stuff and you certainly want to handle outdoors at arms length and do not breath any of the vapor. I was in Ed Cains shop a week or so ago and he had some on the shelf, but I probably have enough now to last my lifetime.
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Muzzleloader Builders Supply has it in their catalog.
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Ferric Nitrate from the science store is easy to get online...no acid!!
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Stonewall creek outfitters .
Mike
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Log Cabin Shop in Lodi Ohio has it...give 'em a call
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Stateside nitric acid can be purchased from Antec. Or go to the Southern Longrifle show and buy some from numerous sources there.
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does anyone know where one can buy aquafortis? t.o.t.w. don't sell it anymore. or the purchace nitic acid?
You can make nitrate of iron stain with ferric nitrate crystals.
Search the internet. Onlin chemical suppliers have it.
No acid needed and seems to give the same result.
Dissolving iron in nitric acid makes ferric nirate.
Dan
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Hey all,
i was told here was the place to come for information on aquafortis, and sure enough there is already a post on it.
From what I can gather and what was said earlier, Ferric Nitrate gives the same results as iron nails in nitric acid...
But just to be super clear, I can simply use ferric nitrate dissolved in water, no acid needed at all?
Andrew
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You can use the Ferric nitrate disolved in distilled water or in denatured alcohol. try different concentrations... the alcohol is nice cause it dries quick
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A solution of ferric nitrate crystals vs iron reacted in nitric acid does not necessarily equal the same thing. Dependent on a number of variables the iron in nitric acid will give you ferric nitrate and ferrous nitrate a small amount of KNO3, a lot of nitrous oxide and whatever other stuff was in the metal, the differences can be subtle but I personally perfer the results using the old fashioned acid method. for those wishing to avoid hazzardous chemicals you can buy enough ferric nitrate crystals to last your lifetime for the price of nitric acid plus shipping and handling.
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Considering the commercially available Ferric Nitrate stains people who do not care to make their own from acid and iron would be better off to buy the Ferric Nitrate crystals. Mix them to a strength that gives the color they want .
Dan
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Hey all,
i was told here was the place to come for information on aquafortis, and sure enough there is already a post on it.
From what I can gather and what was said earlier, Ferric Nitrate gives the same results as iron nails in nitric acid...
But just to be super clear, I can simply use ferric nitrate dissolved in water, no acid needed at all?
Andrew
Testing by a Montana Guild member shows that there is no difference in color between the crystals and a stain with acid.
Dan
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Testing by a Montana Guild member shows that there is no difference in color between the crystals and a stain with acid.
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Does ferric nitrate corrode metal like the AF made from nitric acid?
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Greg, it affects steel, In fact I use it to brown iron. I store my bottle of crystals inside an empty Jiff peanut butter jar to keep it from emitting vapors. I make up a solution and store it the same way. I left the lid off of the bottle overnight once, earlier last Spring, and am still cleaning rust off of tools and other iron in the shop. The good news is that you are not dealing with acid, and hazmet fees.
Bill
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Greg, it affects steel, In fact I use it to brown iron. I store my bottle of crystals inside an empty Jiff peanut butter jar to keep it from emitting vapors. I make up a solution and store it the same way. I left the lid off of the bottle overnight once, earlier last Spring, and am still cleaning rust off of tools and other iron in the shop. The good news is that you are not dealing with acid, and hazmet fees.
What I was really wondering is whether it is as hard to neutralize as the AF made from Nitric Acid? I had a hard time getting the AF neutralized in the barrel channel of my rifle. It was really rusting the bottom flats of the barrel. Finally got it stopped.
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Testing by a Montana Guild member shows that there is no difference in color between the crystals and a stain with acid.
Does ferric nitrate corrode metal like the AF made from nitric acid?
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Never used the stuff
If its made and used right acid stain does not corrode metal so I don't see a problem with the crystals.
Dan
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Testing by a Montana Guild member shows that there is no difference in color between the crystals and a stain with acid.
Does ferric nitrate corrode metal like the AF made from nitric acid?
Never used the stuff
If its made and used right acid stain does not corrode metal so I don't see a problem with the crystals.
Dan
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Thank you Dan for the insight on what I did wrong. It will go a long way towards helping on my next build.
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I have been usng the ferric Nitrate crystals for several years and have seen no corrosion...ferric nitrate is one of the compounds that make up rust.... its whats left over so to speak
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Testing by a Montana Guild member shows that there is no difference in color between the crystals and a stain with acid.
Does ferric nitrate corrode metal like the AF made from nitric acid?
Never used the stuff
If its made and used right acid stain does not corrode metal so I don't see a problem with the crystals.
Dan
Thank you Dan for the insight on what I did wrong. It will go a long way towards helping on my next build.
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I was more curt than I should have been accept my apology.
The proper use of AF has been detailed a number of times here on the site.
If its made right, and I would not trust the store bought stuff to be so, applied and then reacted with radiant heat to heat the wood well. Then neutralized to kill any remaining acid there should be no problem.
The only acid stained guns I have had problems with were with store stain containing both nitric and hydrochloric acids.
In making the stain with acid it is possible to add iron/steel till it will dissolve no more and the acid will be depleted or nearly so.
Nor does it seem to matter what the source of iron is. Old wagon tires, steel wool or small finishing nails all give the same color, as does the nitrate of iron crystals from what I have seen.
The neutralizing wash should be water with a high baking soda content but not so much as to leave undissolved soda on the stock. It is not uncommon to have the solution show some bubbling when its applied. This shows the remaining acid is being reduced. So any place the stain touches needs the soda solution applied.
While I have a stock done back in the 90's with store bought stain that is excessively "muddy" it has never shown any corrosion of any metal parts. I believe this is the result of the stain being intentionally adulterated with hydrochloric acid.
Dan
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No problem Dan and thanks for the reply. The Aqua Fortis I used, I made myself. I used 68% nitric acid that I purchased from a chemical company in CA. I dissolved thoroughly washed steel wool in the acid until it would dissolve no more, then strained the solution to remove the sludge that had settled in the bottom. This all occurred over several weeks. The one thing I got from all the threads on making AF was that it was important that all the acid be depleted by dissolving metal and best I could tell I did that. After staining and finishing some test scraps, I was satisfied with the results. I stained my stock (including the barrel channel) and once this was dry washed the entire stock with a baking soda solution like you describe. Then finish was applied to the stock (6 or 7 coats if I remember correctly). I did not apply finish to the barrel channel or the lock inlet. A few weeks of shooting passed and I pulled the barrel out of the stock while cleaning one night and found significant rust on the barrel where it contacted the wood. Over the next few weeks, I washed the barrel channel at least 3 more times and oiled the barrel well before putting it back in the stock each time. I finally got the rusting stopped, but it took several times washing with baking soda and steel wooling and oiling the barrel. I still get some rusting on the barrel underlugs where they go into the inlets in the stock, but not too bad. I was curious if the ferric nitrate was a corrosive as the AF made from nitric acid. If the color is just as good, I may try it next time. I do have enough nitric acid to last my lifetime though. Cost more to have it shipped from CA than the acid itself.
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I never stain inlets other than what gets there in the course of staining and I ALWAYS seal all inlets.
Especially under the butt plate where a heavy oil helps seal the end grain.
It will not be water proof but it will make is far more water resistant.
Dan