AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: rich pierce on August 04, 2011, 05:51:29 PM

Title: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: rich pierce on August 04, 2011, 05:51:29 PM

At Dixon's there was a terrific display of original Angstadt rifles, complete with a geneology.  The earliest one was at the very top of the display case and was hard to photo and I only got the cheekpiece side.  I was wowed by the cheekpiece carving which had a very early and folksy feel much different from later Angstadt designs which are wonderful but usually incised.  Would love to build a rifle based on this and to be able to see more of it.  Adam Angstadt was born in 1740 so certainly would have been working as a gunsmith by the 1760's.  I wonder if this design is from that era, carried on to what is probably a 1780's-90's rifle.

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv513%2Frichpierce%2Foriginals%2FOldestAngstadt21.jpg&hash=bec2a912d8d7620ce502a638d1b4ac0522329cee)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv513%2Frichpierce%2Foriginals%2FOldestAngstadt1.jpg&hash=538f3115f78810d1e7362627378732a67c2737d7)

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: Nate McKenzie on August 04, 2011, 06:36:11 PM

Thanks Rich. I was really wishing I had my camera with me. Did you by any chance take a picture of I think the third one up from the bottom on the same side with the incised back to back C-scrolls?

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: rich pierce on August 04, 2011, 06:45:39 PM

Will post later when I get them uploaded.

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on August 04, 2011, 07:22:15 PM

I have pictures of that one that someone forwarded to me.  Something to think about - I don;t have my Kindig in front of me but compare that carving to a couple of rifles in there that he called "early Molls" and also compare it to the carving on rifle that was discussed here a few years ago which turned up down in NC with the patchbox that looked like a hand playing a violin neck.

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: Nate McKenzie on August 05, 2011, 01:28:11 AM

Thanks. I'm looking forward to seeing those pictures.

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: Tom Currie on August 05, 2011, 03:24:18 AM

Nice pictures through the glass Rich. Thanks for posting.
That one stood out to me also. It's always interesting to see unique carving. The sweeps in the design really flow well, especially the lower half.  To me this seems less folksy than the later Angstads.

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: rich pierce on August 05, 2011, 03:49:21 PM

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv513%2Frichpierce%2Foriginals%2FAngstadt4.jpg&hash=ab85248e795e99444a948b517d74c58bb9256b75)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv513%2Frichpierce%2Foriginals%2FAngstadt3.jpg&hash=265529d8fe169885c130fef4653ee9ad35e7b34e)


(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv513%2Frichpierce%2Foriginals%2FAngstadt2.jpg&hash=2ff07773e33012ff96fa366da879eb1211d478a8)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv513%2Frichpierce%2Foriginals%2Fangstadt1.jpg&hash=a9f0ca63ce2bcc96ae5ed7e87b29eff152b0e36a)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv513%2Frichpierce%2Foriginals%2FAngstadt5.jpg&hash=fdd6f3388989282519584d807566e89a7aaa130a)

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: Nate McKenzie on August 05, 2011, 03:54:26 PM

Thanks Rich. I really like the third one down.

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: nord on August 05, 2011, 08:17:14 PM

Another fine Angstadt...(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww81%2FALRLIBRARY%2FAdam%2520Angstadt%2FIMGP1783.jpg&hash=c7af39f2611bfd7143df57c77b2859a1030b52c2)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww81%2FALRLIBRARY%2FAdam%2520Angstadt%2FIMGP1784.jpg&hash=8075cde067dbd869894bd4e8012e16d25873d2da)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww81%2FALRLIBRARY%2FAdam%2520Angstadt%2FIMGP1785.jpg&hash=76ec59b095a9d77ab7598fb7f42bc36840dafd27)

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: rich pierce on August 05, 2011, 10:25:09 PM

superb, thanks!

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on August 06, 2011, 01:02:02 AM

That's Abraham isn;t it?  I'm of the school of thought of the Angstadt family dude who wrote that KRA article a bunch of years back - I think most of these AA or A Angstat rifles are Abraham, not Adam.  At least not the older b. 1740 Adam.  He made a darned airtight case in that article.

The rifle originally discussed here I think is deceptive in that the carving begs to be dated earlier, ca. 1780s or 1790s, but frankly I would date it to around 1800 or maybe even a bit later.  JMHO.

Rich that 4th one down in your photos - now THAT is an Angstadt masterpiece.

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: nord on August 06, 2011, 07:29:57 PM

Eric,

In answer to your post there are differing opinions. My rifle is signed A. Angstadt in beautiful script. Opinions vary as to whether Adam or Abraham and I doubt anyone will ever know for certain.

Some say the architecture and being an original flinter places it more to the hand of Adam. Others opine an early Abraham creation. All I know is that if an early Abraham, then the boy learned well!

My intuition tells me that this rifle is not the work of a blooming riflemaker. This in no way detracts from the obvious talents of Abraham but rather hints at an older more experienced hand. Just too many things flowing together in this rifle for a young maker to get right.

Of course this is only my opinion and I might well be totally wrong. So... An "A. Angstadt" with a flint ignition made sometime c. 1800. Maybe a decade or so  before and just as possibly the same after. No matter as the rifle stands on its own merits whether by the father or his son.

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: JTR on August 06, 2011, 08:44:20 PM

Bruce,
That rifle is signed with two T's in the name Angstatt, isn't it?
Was the father, or the son, known to sign his name that way?
Nice rifle, I like it!  ;D

John

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: nord on August 06, 2011, 10:01:14 PM

John,

I'd have to say Angstadt. I'd lean toward the "tt" as being the anglicized version which would logically come later in time... But I've been wrong before.  Joe Flemish has also wondered whether Adam or Abraham.

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww81%2FALRLIBRARY%2FLONG%2520RIFLE%2FAngstadt%2F2408508_2II0S0S21.jpg&hash=8f16f48df4ea0b81ce526284ff50c9a79fb442e7)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww81%2FALRLIBRARY%2FLONG%2520RIFLE%2FAngstadt%2F2408508_2II0S0R20.jpg&hash=9a4ebda2b49e2ce2cbe86dfb1b4f66d0b27822e6)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww81%2FALRLIBRARY%2FLONG%2520RIFLE%2FAngstadt%2F2408508_2II0S0QEK.jpg&hash=79f6b99455d34a65c989d4534b18e98786baa3d3)

Title: Re: Early Adam Angstadt rifle killer carving
Post by: GrampaJack on August 07, 2011, 02:17:55 AM

I appreciate the pictures Rich. For us folks who can never seem to make it to the big shows etc. (read that as any shows) this kind of stuff keeps us up.  When I think of "longrifle" these are exactly what I picture. Thanks, Jack