AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: bigsmoke on October 24, 2012, 04:17:42 AM
-
Well, I have been thinking about starting a thread like this for a while. Saw the subject of show us your squirrel rifle, so thought the time would be right. I will start it off with my first one.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi264.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii161%2Fbigsmoke72%2FGASRP-1.jpg&hash=4b290d4ccf2806e902ab5b44df331ea78db24214)
Rigby style .69 caliber rifle with a 34" 1 1/4 barrel, octagon to round. L & R lock, Allen Foundry trigger, breechplug and buttplate. The stock is maple finished with chromium trioxide. The front sight is a T/C Hawken bead sight and the rear sight is a 3 blade express sight.
The hunting load is 200 grains Ffg GOEX, .678 r/b, Ox Yoke pre-lubed .70-79 caliber .015 patch and an Ox Yoke 14 ga pre-lubed cushion wad. That gives it about 1,800 fps + at 50 feet. Set the chrono any closer than that and you get false readings.
John
-
Elephant gun??? I shoot a .69 cal. in the N-SSA and even loaded down, the potential for power is there.
-
Mine is a .69 too.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh217%2Frobin101st%2FDSCN0981-1.jpg&hash=c734dca058ebf6ff83ed5f825c4ff6cbd84c8c73)
Robby
-
Mine is a .69 too.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh217%2Frobin101st%2FDSCN0981-1.jpg&hash=c734dca058ebf6ff83ed5f825c4ff6cbd84c8c73)
Robby
I would like to know a little more about this gun. It looks interesting.
Thanks,
James
-
Nice rifles guys. The 1/2 round is great, however I really like the lines of yours Robby. Well done. The lock's on the wrong side, of course. Nice just the same.
I'm on my wife's mac computer- my desktop started working slower than dialup -nasty slow - can't upload my .69, but it's been here to often anyway.
Good to see more 14 bores-!!!!!
-
Thanks Daryl!
Xring, It is my interpretation of an English sporting rifle. The stock blank is from Dunlap, the barrel is from the Gun Works, both of these outfits are great people to work with!! L&R correct handed lock ;), slightly modified lock, hook breech, steel hardware. My first attempt at checkering. It shoots real nice off hand, being very consistent and accurate. Off the bench, Well it is manageable ;D.
Robby
-
do slug guns count?
-
I'd say yes. I didn't see any limiting rules in the original post!
Bring 'em on.
-
I'd say yes. I didn't see any limiting rules in the original post!
Bring 'em on.
Well, it's not quite a rifle...........................YET. It will be soon!
Pair of 12 Bore rifle barrels from Oregon blanks profiled to match the barrels on an original 12Bore DR. Still in the accumulating parts stage right now. As soon as I get done with my current project I'll be getting serious on this. With a little luck I'll be able to take a Buff or two with it in 2014!
My favorite view. That's a .490RB in front of it. ;)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff213%2Fshane2841%2FGun%2520Crap%2F12BoreTubes.jpg&hash=9da0b8c938f2fbb3c5e192f9e4d0d2815e45a27b)
-
Wow! When talk turns to large bore rifles, that's EXACTLY what you mean! The largest rifle I ever owned was a .58 and it's no longer in my stable. I can't think of ANYTHING I do that would require those huge cannons, and Robby, that is a beautiful and wondrous instrument you have built.
The largest I own is a .50 and a .54. This is my .54 US M1841 Mississippi Rifle.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi599.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt74%2Fhanshi_photo%2FPICT0559-1.jpg&hash=7279a23fa49014b2e2065b66020385b107c2be08)
A .54 York/early Lancaster hybrid "youths rifle"; I'm a little guy.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi599.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt74%2Fhanshi_photo%2FPICT0624-2.jpg&hash=00be623d57a5b3329a150e0136ad49162677094a)
-
Here s two of mine a 62cal Baker and a 58 cal carbine
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy183%2Fmaudite%2FBakerRifleFullRight.jpg&hash=0c8c6fad7e5bcc045dadc2944349a748cab1fc13)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy183%2Fmaudite%2Faal-136_1.jpg&hash=3b7cf85fbad403ef8ff5c3523e05a390a67075b4)
-
Well, it's not quite a rifle...........................YET. It will be soon!
Pair of 12 Bore rifle barrels from Oregon blanks profiled to match the barrels on an original 12Bore DR.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff213%2Fshane2841%2FGun%2520Crap%2F12BoreTubes.jpg&hash=9da0b8c938f2fbb3c5e192f9e4d0d2815e45a27b)
And when it grows up, it might look like this. 4 Bore double with a .530 in the barrel.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi264.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii161%2Fbigsmoke72%2F4BORE023_edited.jpg&hash=7bce38477e5580aee79b81b655cc93cb9b305089)
-
Sorry, didn't mean to be a try at one ups man ship there, but your upcoming 12 bore surely did need some company.
4 bore is the biggest I have ever wanted to go with. The tubes were also from The Gun Works/Oregon Rifle Barrel Co. Have known Joe and Suzy for more years than I want to admit, and have always found them to be great people. I always turned to them for the 8 bore and 4 bore barrels I have needed. I remember several years ago at the Cascade Mountain Man Gun Show Joe had his display set up and on the end of a row of tables he had a 2 bore barrel. For some reason, that just intimidated the heck out of me. 2 bore = 1 5/16". Round ball is about 8 ounces or 3,500 grains. Then the next year, he had a rifle made out of one of those barrels. Just flat scarry!! I will shoot a 4 bore with a 400 - 450 grain charge, but no way would I shoot a 2 bore. I shot a 3 bore rifle once and that pursuaded me 4 bore was my limit. That one was a conical. Ufda!! Big whallop!! Even with a 200 grain charge.
Shane, what are you doing for the breech plug set on the 12 bore? Track used to sell a set that was made by a guy in California, if I recall correctly. I ordered up a set several years ago, but have not ever seen them delivered. Probably 10 years ago. I think the fellow was having some family health problems at the time, and no doubt lost info in the meantime. Of course, I have moved also, but he had a few years in the meantime to take care of business.
John
-
I think anymore, I'd not shoot a gun larger than about 10 bore. They'd "wear" heavily on this old tired body.
-
And I thought a 12 was big. Goes to show what a redneck knows ;)
-
I think anymore, I'd not shoot a gun larger than about 10 bore. They'd "wear" heavily on this old tired body.
You know, I am starting to feel that way myself. Only 10 years ago, I was all for it. Bring it on, I'd give any of em a try (except for a two bore). Now, not so much. Heck, even last year, I finally decided to sell off my little 8 bore double. I hadn't shot it in quite a while, and had no intention of. Might as well get 'er gone. I don't think the fellow who bought it has given it a try either. I take my 14 bore out occassionally, but really prefer the .62. Growning old sure has some limitations.
John
-
My big bore is a 58 flint Hawken, but the largest I fired was a 4-bore flint. It rang my 29 year old bell pretty good! No way this old frame could handle it now, that would be suicide! :o :o :o
-
Sorry, didn't mean to be a try at one ups man ship there,
Don't worry. I didn't take it that way. That 4 Bore is AWESOME. Do you have any pics to load of the whole thing?
I want to take the 12 to Either Argentina or Australia in 14 for Buff. So I have time to go slow and do it right. After that it's time to start working on Africa for a cape Buff and whatever else I can scrape/beg/borrow the money for. If, by some miracle I was able to arrange the capital for a cull elephant hunt I would want to build a 4 bore double.
Right now, the plan for the 12 is a Mantonish/Mortimeresque Flint DR styled after a Mortimer flint 6 bore DR that was at Puglisi a while back. I'm planning on machining recessed plugs and fabricating a standing breech myself. I'm using one of the store bought "patent" breeches on a gun I'm building now and was less than impressed with it. It would have been easier to just make one from scratch IMO.
I LOVE double rifles and the guns used in the early days of the Safari. I also have a big crush on the European sporting guns and doubles. I have a lot of builds in that vein I eventually want to do.
-
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi264.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii161%2Fbigsmoke72%2F4BORE001.jpg&hash=289b6e172fb1f5e884a3e25d043d2c4b0aa48865)
Here is one of it. I will have to look a little deeper to find some more.
The trip to Argentina sounds great!! Hunt buff during the day, drink Argentine Malbec wine and tango at night. A person could just flat wear himself out in short order. ;D I understand that besides the water buff in Australia, another interesting thing to hunt is "brushies" or brush bulls, ferral cattle in other words. I seem to recall they are found in the northern part of the country. Worth checking on, I'd think.
-
Oh, bigsmoke; that an astonishingly fine looking double. Yep, it will do ya'.
-
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi264.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii161%2Fbigsmoke72%2F4BORE001.jpg&hash=289b6e172fb1f5e884a3e25d043d2c4b0aa48865)
Here is one of it. I will have to look a little deeper to find some more.
The trip to Argentina sounds great!! Hunt buff during the day, drink Argentine Malbec wine and tango at night. A person could just flat wear himself out in short order. ;D I understand that besides the water buff in Australia, another interesting thing to hunt is "brushies" or brush bulls, ferral cattle in other words. I seem to recall they are found in the northern part of the country. Worth checking on, I'd think.
Very nice. The huge barrels don't overpower the other architecture of the gun.
I know all about the Brush Bulls. I think, statistically, they're supposed to be more dangerous than the Buff. I found a good, "roughing it" type outfitter in Australia who was able to arrange for powder in camp. The issue is that, for roughly the same money I can
- Go to Australia and spend 5 days getting a buff and a bull from a tent in the outback
or
- Go to Argentina and spend about 7 or 8 days and get a Buff, 2 Red stags a Black Buck, a nice Boar and spend a day shooting Partridge off the Pampas. Then spend the night in a nice lodge eating Argentinian beef and getting served wine by some smoking hot Argentine server girl.
choices choices. lol (if you're somehow seeing this honey, the girls are just waitresses and I'm not going to be in BA, I promise. Love you)
I want to eventually do both anyway. So it really is a difficult choice. Plus, you have to factor in the fact that there may be a finite number of days left that you can go do that in Australia.
-
Shane,
I'd take Argentina. Especially if there is a possibility that things could shut down before you were able to get there after Australia. Not that there is any problem with tenting it in the outback, but gosh, that SA trip sounds just fantastic. And carne asada with Malbec served by a hot little honey? Whoo, where do we sign up?
I always thought that the stereotypical 4 bore was just an ugly brute of a gun. Typically with a 22-24" barrel and thick, thick, thick. Just no style. The advantage was better maneuverability and muzzle weight to combat the recoil. I prefer the longer barrel, these are either 28 or 30", but I think they were 28. The rifle still weighed in at about 20 pounds, anyway. For some reason, I never wanted to shoot it with more than 300 grains of Fg. That was enough.
-
Of course, F. Selous used 4 bore smoothbores with round balls in Africa on Elephant. They were single shot, shortened Dutch caplock fowlers. Their weights would have been not much over 12 pounds, if that heavy. Selous once stated, that the 4 bores ruined his accurate rifle shooting for the rest of his life.
-
Darly,
I have not really studied Selious all that closely, but wasn't that remark made a bit after his gun bearer accidently double loaded the gun? Seems like that is what I read. Those guns could certainly do damage on both ends. Broken, dislocated shoulders, detatched retinas, and other fun physical problems are just a few of the maladies that could arise from letting the gun get a running start at you.
John
-
The big bore rifle is an intriguing thing but were they ever really needed?
Didn't an African hunter by the name of Bell take down everything with a
7MM? A 28 caliber isn't any big bore that I am familiar with. How about
the rest of you out there??
Bob Roller
-
Didn't an African hunter by the name of Bell take down everything with a
7MM? A 28 caliber isn't any big bore that I am familiar with. Bob Roller
Point taken. However, is not the lowly .22 a favorite with poachers for deer also? For some reason, however, most state game departments think that a larger bore firearm is needed. I think Sir Samuel White Baker said it best in his book, "Wild Beasts and their Ways": There is no more fatal policy in hunting large or dangerous game than a contempt of the animal, exhibited by a selection of weapons of inferior caliber. Common sense should be the guide and surely it requires no extraordinary intelligence to understand that a big animal requires a big bullet, and that a big bullet requires a correspinding charge of powder...
-
The big bore rifle is an intriguing thing but were they ever really needed?
Didn't an African hunter by the name of Bell take down everything with a
7MM? A 28 caliber isn't any big bore that I am familiar with. How about
the rest of you out there??
Bob Roller
Yeah, but IIRC he was able to get away with using the most common ammo found because he was such a freakishly good shot that he could depend on making ear shots on running elephants.
-
I had two big bore rifles for hunting until a few days ago. The first is my Jaeger in .60 cal throwing a 305 grain ball, and which now belongs to a friend. And the second is my Hawken in .62 which likes a .613 ball @ ~350 grains. Here's a few pics of the Hawken, and of me with the Jaeger and some dangerous game! Later this winter, I'll have some shots of me and the Hawken, and a moose I shot two days ago.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FTaylorMadeGuns%2FHawken%2F100_1386.jpg&hash=f442ece55e9fa639d6725017d927a9a5e5883989)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FTaylorMadeGuns%2FHawken%2F100_1387.jpg&hash=63c038ab5874122f8b384a1a86927494b744bc86)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FTaylorMadeGuns%2FHawken%2F100_1392.jpg&hash=d09a54d86e6f091c3d38fabd92644080ad9cbbbb)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2F100_2296.jpg&hash=01aa6401657ab60b304ffb7a679f7d3144d89a9b)
-
Taylor, that flinter looks like a single shot gun. You were lucky that critter didnt charge! ;D
-
Let's just say his heart, among other parts, wasn't in it.
-
Did you have to use a finishing shot? ;D
-
No, but I didn't get every gopher I shot at. I thought it'd be great practice with the jaeger. On the second day, I used my .40 cal Kuntz rifle and was more productive/destructive. It poured rain, which didn't seem to affect the critters, and the rifle never missed a beat.
Now, back to your station...
-
over at allen coons farm they were shooting a 4 bore that lizard had it looked like they were putting lead golf balls down the barel shooting around 300 grains of powder shooting it prone and hitting target real well at 60 yards it was fun to watch them slide back acrooss the grass as pulled trigger close as i got to that thing was the cheering section
dag
-
what fine looking guns the wood and finish was truely outstanding
dag
-
14 bore rifle.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv638%2FDarylS%2F14%2520Bore%2FDSCF0027.jpg&hash=6fd60b30b66c096a02f215e0cb8214a068fbbf65)
-
Here is another double rifle I had for several years. It is an 8 bore with Oregon Rifle Barrel tubes, L & R shotgun locks and triggers and a piece of English Walnut for the stock. The iron furniture came from Allen Manufacturing.
The barrels had rifling at 1@144, .006 deep. The breechplugs were machined and the hammers were extended to fit.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi264.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii161%2Fbigsmoke72%2F8bore1.jpg&hash=445f74f630e1f46ad503559d2b350f2c64f9f22a)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi264.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii161%2Fbigsmoke72%2F8bore5.jpg&hash=1026b2b1df626262027df288c7a2d83a4168b2c6)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi264.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii161%2Fbigsmoke72%2F8bore6.jpg&hash=7b319fd0608d0fdda62d20f883eea73e06ceeffa)
The load was 300 grains of Fg, an 8 gauge Ox Yoke lubed cushion wad, a T/C Wonder Lube Cleaning Patch and an .820 cast ball. 1,425 fps. Loaned to to a customer for an African hunt, he shot a charging 525 pound male lion at 25 yards, flipped it up in the air and it did a one and a half summersault and landed on its back, facing away from them. The ball hit high chest, went the length of its body and exited through the hind quarters, shattering the pelvic girdle.
The power of these big bore guns is just totally amazing and until a person experiences it for themselves, they just do not understand.
John
-
Nice, bigsmoke! I always cringe when someone asks about what slug to use in his 12 bore Kodiak DR. "Exactly WHY do you think you need a slug?"
-
Daryl,
A number of years ago, a fellow wanted a 12 bore rifle to shoot a conical bullet. At least he wanted it a heavy rifle. 36" x 1 1/4" barrel, 1:28 rifling. I think it wound up about 16 pounds, IIRC. The conical looked sorta like a Minnie bullet on steroids, seems like it weighed about 1,250 grains. Ufda!!
The test firing and chronograph session was "interesting", to say the least. It was totally awful to shoot. I believe I received a mild concussion shooting off the bench.
No, you really do not need conicals in a 12 bore.
-
Sheesh! If I can get my head in the muzzle, the gun has long passed being too big.
-
Good one, hanshi
I altered a hollow based Lyman mould so it was adjustable, in .58. the lightest were 560gr. while the heaviest were 1,200gr. I stopped testing at around 800gr. as each shot was making me wince from pain - bench testing, of course.
Round balls kick just fine, thanks.
Here's a 480gr. ball driven be 140gr. 2F. Quite enough, thanks. I'm 6'1" but only 210 pounds (well, maybe 220) when this picture was taken.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv638%2FDarylS%2Fcid_60C1E34C-7AC8-4D74-9E25-C4D1204C0E3Alocal.jpg&hash=72b75ced2c421e40b8e7b70600cdd2c37804f041)
-
Heh, heh, heh. Yepper, surely do pack a bit of whallop.
Is that recoil or maybe you were shooting trap?
John
-
Years ago there was a movie called "A Boy Ten Feet Tall" about a youngster whose parents had been
killed and he walked from Northern Africa to Southern Africa to live with an aunt and on that long trek
he encountered an old ivory poacher played by of all people,Edward G.Robinson who used a big muzzle loader
in his poaching operation. When the boy finally got to his aunts' home she asked him what he would like to have
and he relied,"an old fashioned elephant gun and a quart of whiskey". He said the idea was to drink the whisky down below
the label and then load and fire the elephant afterward.This might be good advice when firing these big bore guns.
The only big bore muzzle loader I ever had was a cased W.W.Greener 16 bore double rifle that also had two sets
of shotgun barrels in 10 and 12 bore and all the widgets needed to keep that outfit shooting including a mould for a
Greener Patent Bullet,a two piece affair that I never bothered to try. I shot the rifle barrels with 90 grains of 3fg and a round ball
and it regulated both barrels at 50 yards. I never tried the shotguns.
Bob Roller
\
-
90gr. of 3F & a round ball or shot charge will kick in a large bore of shotgun weight. I do not believe I could now "stand up" to anything larger than perhaps a 10 1/2 to 11 pound 10 bore. That would be about the absolute limit for me, I'm sure. It would have to be an English design, single or double as well.
-
Here are a couple of mine. The first one is .79 caliber and english (Reeves). It is also number two in the group shot. The top one in the group shot is 95 caliber but no maker's name although the barrel was made by Rose. I shoot it (occasionally) with a 1200 grain, .935 patched round ball and 230 grains of 1F. Gun weighs 14 lbs and you do have to be careful not to have your thumb too close to your nose when you fire it (I have found). Forgot to mention that the .95 cal is a smooth bore but the .79 cal is rifled. Both have damascus barrels
cheers Doug
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv506%2Fmooncoon%2FCReeves10gprofileb.jpg&hash=612051ee7f752c2b0665e71c81170590e20760a5)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv506%2Fmooncoon%2FBritishPercRiflesb.jpg&hash=4c1fce03b9a98073fbca8763fd58e4dde977a15d)
-
Loverly guns, Doug. That .95 should make a buffalo roll over. I expect the .79 would as well, quite handily.
-
It apparently has been to South Africa because it has what looks like a compass rose engraved on the top of the barrel. I was told by a fellow who was on a now defunct list and who lived in South Africa, that the symbol was a sort of good luck charm in that area. It would not surprise me if the gun was capable of shooting lengthwise through a moose as long as you used a hardened ball. I think that hardened balls was the reason that Baker preferred the 6 guage over the 4 guage which I assume he shot with soft cast minis of some kind. One might say that he needed hardened balls for more than a few of his exploits :>) I have a copy of "Rifle and hound in Ceylon and it certainly makes for good reading although the waste of animals was pretty disgusting after a while. I should mention that he complained because the french and the indians shot animals merely for food and had no sense of sport
cheers Doug
-
Mine is a .69 too.(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi257.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh217%2Frobin101st%2FDSCN0981-1.jpg&hash=c734dca058ebf6ff83ed5f825c4ff6cbd84c8c73) Robby
I want to hear some more details about this gorgeous lefty as well. ;D
-
Bull, I did provide a few more details about a third of the way down on the first page of this string. If you want something more specific let me know. Thank you!!
Robby
-
Are "bore" and "gauge" the same measure, different word?
-
Yes, both denote the number of lead balls the size of the bore, that it takes to weigh a pound. i.e. a 12 Gauge/bore lead ball weighs 1/12th of a pound, a 16 Gauge/bore weighs 1/16th of a pound etc.
Dennis
-
Thank you Dennis. Jim
-
The interesting thing about gauge/bore is that as the size of the bore increases, the gauge becomes a little less distinct.
As a case in point, Turner Kirkland acquired a "4 bore" double rifle from a deal he made in London. This beautiful double rifle was the subject of an article printed in the first Lyman Black Powder Book in 1976. If you can find it, it is a good read. However, his "4 bore" was actually about a 6 bore, or .89 caliber. Since a true 4 bore is more like 1.05 caliber, you can see the problem there.
The 4 bore barrels I used to get from Joe Williams at the Gun Works shot a .980 ball pretty good. But that would be slightly undersize for a true 4 bore. I used that and a pre-lubed 2 1/4" T/C cleaning patch on top of a lubed cushion wad cut from a piece of black construction board. Just right. IIRC, the ball weighed about 1,450 grains.
I find the world of big bore muzzleloaders so terribly fascinating!
John
-
I saw Turner Kirkland's 6 bore double when I worked at Dixie Gun Works in the summer of 1958
and it was some piece. One hot night,we got the 1927 Pierce-Arrow roadster out of the museum
and took the 6 bore and a 10 bore double rifles out and shot wild dogs by using the Pierce's post mounted
spotlight that stood on the driver's side running board/. I remember standing with my right foot on the running
board and using the windshield frame for a rest for the 10 bore and turning several mutts tail up in the weeds.
I wish now I had bought that 10 bore but then if wishes were horses,beggars would ride.
Bob Roller
-
I think that hardened balls was the reason that Baker preferred the 6 guage over the 4 guage which I assume he shot with soft cast minis of some kind.
In Wild Beasts and their Ways, Baker said: "I have seen in a life's experience the extraordinary vagaries of rilfe bullets.. there is nothing, in my opinion, superior to the old spherical hardened bullet with a heavy charge of powder...
So, possibly he was not shooting soft cast minis. Also, I don't recall his mentioning anything about 6 bore guns, but could be. After the advent of breach loaders, he did seem to favor the .577, from what I recall.
John
-
So, possibly he was not shooting soft cast minis. Also, I don't recall his mentioning anything about 6 bore guns, but could be.
the book I was referring to was Rifle and Hound in Ceylon. In it he seemed to prefer I am pretty sure it was an 8 guage to a 6 guage for shooting elephants and water buffalo. I remember being surprised because he felt that the smaller gun was more effective. I don't recall him saying what his lead mixture was but do remember posting on another forum, that I wondered why and the consensus was that he used hardened balls in the smaller gun vs softer elongate bullets, presumably minis, in his heavier gun. I also recall an article years ago by I think it was Val Fogett of Navy Arms, shooting an african elephant with a heavy guage muzzle loading rifle and getting relatively little penetration with it (only 2 or 3 feet). The speculation was that he was not using hardened balls
cheers Doug
-
I think that hardened balls was the reason that Baker preferred the 6 guage over the 4 guage which I assume he shot with soft cast minis of some kind.
In Wild Beasts and their Ways, Baker said: "I have seen in a life's experience the extraordinary vagaries of rilfe bullets.. there is nothing, in my opinion, superior to the old spherical hardened bullet with a heavy charge of powder...
So, possibly he was not shooting soft cast minis. Also, I don't recall his mentioning anything about 6 bore guns, but could be. After the advent of breach loaders, he did seem to favor the .577, from what I recall.
John
The 577 was the 577 2 3/4 BPE and 577 3" BPE cartridge rifles which he was instrumental in developing.
He also used a 10 bore cartridge rifle. The 577 used PP bullets either solid lead or HP for penetration they hardened them. The 10 bore shot hardened bullets too but I doubt they were significantly heavier than a 10 bore RB.
In MLs he preferred the RB having gotten into "scrapes" with African Elephant when he had a conical mould made for his two groove "stopping rifle". With the normal ball (probably belted) it never failed to "floor a charging elephant". With the conical it was useless for this.
I have a 577 2 3/4" "solid" bullet used in a friends Westley Richards double. Might be a photo on the computer someplace....
They did not have a high sectional density being "Express Bullets" and BP will not produce high velocity with bullets that are 3 calibers long like the LR bullets for 44-45 calibers.
Went out and took a photo.
This is a 560 gr 577 2 3/4" BPE bullet and a copy of the Gov't 45 cal 405 gr. The HP 577 was cast in the same mould by using a plug to form the hollow.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi199%2FDPhariss%2FGuns%2520III%2FP1040162-Version2.jpg&hash=7c2b76d2140fca566de798b291938782a34ca2d1)
The 405 gr is a medium length bullet for the 45-70.
Dan
-
If someone can tell how to post pictures I'll post some of these;
.69 cal pistol grip half stock percussion plains rifle -original
16 bore Westley Richards percussion half stock stalking rifle original
1816 .69 cal smoothbore flint restored original
1816 .69 cal flint rifled barrel-"hybrid" built on original hardware and stock, reconverted lock, Whitacre 3 groove barrel
1842 .69 cal rifled musket-original
1842 .69 cal rifled musket cut to carbine length. No idea when it was cut down.
.72 cal fullstock flint, Forsyth rifling, Moody barrel.
Duane
-
Duane;
In the ALR Tutorial section, second item, you will find this picture posting tutorial, here is a direct link:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0
Dave
-
Bull, I did provide a few more details about a third of the way down on the first page of this string. If you want something more specific let me know. Thank you!!
Robby
I found it, Dunlop sold you a pretty piece of wood and I like the checkering especially. I've got an L&R caplock on my .54 plains rifle, also on the "correct" side and I'm pretty pleased with it.
-
All this talk about 4 bores and 6 bores, I guess I'll have to post my little .62 Jaeger in the squirrel rifle thread.
-
Tom,
In my view, anything over .60 caliber is a big bore. Bring it on, I like Jaegers. Those are big bores that were meant to be shot comfortably.
John
-
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8342%2F8195610977_6ebae285e6_z.jpg&hash=a7e11a3aaec8c7a1df98bda76354c63f3395d879)
Caywood English Game gun, rifled barrel, cal .62, with its first deer. It has the sparkingest lock of any flinter I've ever owned, but I have to admit that the gun's external coning took me some time to adjust my priming technique to get reliable ignition.
I was hunting with 3 others, each of whom was equipped with a modern inline. Our host who organized the hunt was tickled to death that I was hunting with a traditionally styled gun, and got really gushy when it brought down a deer.
-
;D Fantastic. Sure is a pretty ol' gun. That venison don't look too bad either.
-
come on guys .more of your big guns and stories some real fine looking big bores
dag
-
OK, here it is with a little buck I nailed in 2008. I just dropped a big old doe with it yesterday! Best deer slayer I ever owned. It had been loaded for ten days and went off just as quickly as a fresh load! But that is normal for this rifle.
It is a Military style (Thomas Pistor) Jaeger .62 cal x 30" x 1 1/6" straight oct. Getz custom barrel, 1-66 twist. Davis Jaeger flintlock and dbl.set triggers. Weighs in at 12 lbs. so it can absorb the recoil just fine.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi203.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa43%2FREXTHOMAS2%2F08%2520DEER%2F100_2792.jpg&hash=2558be7ec17495a1739f36ae3732e8b83a3baaf3)