AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Dennis Glazener on November 12, 2012, 08:38:54 PM
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I used to always prime from my horn since at the time I only used 3F powder. Then I started using 2F in my 54 hunting rifle and a buddy gave me a 1/2 lb of 4F claiming better ignition. That's an argument for another topic ;D Anyway I had an old TC priming tool that someone gave me. You know the one that you fill with priming powder then push the spout against the bottom of the pan to release the priming powder. I have been using that in my 54 hunting rifle. Saturday the bottom portion (spout/powder chamber) fell off (it was pressed in and had an indentation on both sides) and all I had when I got back to the truck was the top cap still hanging on my horn strap. Before I buy another one I thought I would see how most of you use to prime from. I wasn't particular happy with the one I had, most of the time I had to push the spout 2 or 3 times to fill the pan (I like a full pan when I am hunting!). Also wasn't too keen about the thing hanging down on my horn strap, just Saturday morning I knocked it up against my horn while shouldering my rifle to take a shot at a small buck, spooked him. Of course I can eliminate that problem by hanging it on my pouch strap which I carry over the left shoulder.
This question probably won't tell me what's best for me but I bet it won't be from lack of opinions!
Dennis
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I use one of the little pan prime flasks from TOLW. Got one in each bag I have and the have fffg in them. Never had anything but good results with fffg prime. So as far as Im concerned if it aint broke ;D
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Depending on the gun I prime with the 2F or 3f in the horn I'm carrying. I have small priming horns and tiny priming gourds but have gotten away from using them. Just inconvenient.
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Dennis, I have one of those brass priming powder dispensers (3 gr. I think) and have had a few problems with it too. I use FFFFg in mine otherwise it gets balky and needs disassembling and cleaning to throw a charge. (It came with my first flintlock.) It's OK with FFFFg, but I'd like to replace it with a nice flat priming horn. Btw, it's not HC, but a small, flat plastic bottle with a secure spout such as the one Dixon's sells with [his] priming powder works quite well and won't make any noise to spook a deer.
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I had two brass primers, one small and the other larger. I lost the small one (my favorite) in the woods last year and only have the larger one - it's still fairly small. Both had screw on bases and tops so didn't come apart at embarrassing moments. I also have a small primer horn made from a deer leg bone and that's what I use in the woods. I prime with 4F and all three primers worked perfectly with 4F.
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I have two of them, both have the same pushdown tip/spout that unscrews for filling. The brass one that I bought works great, never had an issue with it.
The other one is made from a horn tip I carved like my F&I horn and dyed the same, it also works great but has a smaller capacity.
I keep whatever one I am going to use in my shirt pocket.
Gettin back to the original post, I use 4F.
I tried 3F a few times in my .40s pan and it seemed a bit slower between trigger pull and BOOM. I never tried it in my .50 as I use 2F and don't bring any 3F with me when I take her out.
The slight delay could just be my perception as I've lost a step or two over the last few years too. ;D
Scout
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Btw, it's not HC, but a small, flat plastic bottle with a secure spout such as the one Dixon's sells with [his] priming powder works quite well and won't make any noise to spook a deer.
Do you have problems with static electricity causing the powder grains to stick to the bottle?
Regarding the use of 4F for priming, I like it in the cool weather but i have problems with it turning to goop in our hot humid summer heat! 3F is better but not a lot.
Dennis
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No static cling at all. A dryer sheet or a rinse with soapy water will nip static in the bud. Hmmm, FFFFg and humidity almost seem to be made for each other, but I still use it. However, I really should try FFFg, but not in that little pan charger.
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I shoot 2F in the main charge - rarely but sometimes I prime with that. but most the time I prime with 4F from a very little flat horn I made from a calf's bud. one tap on the side of the pan drops a good priming charge.
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I use 4F for priming powder, but I have used 3F. I have a small TC brass pan primer, actually 2 of them as I have a second kit set up for my .32. They have always worked well.
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I prime with 4F most of the time because I have a 1lb can of it to use up which seems to take quite a while. I have primed with 3F and 2 F. I expect to prime with 3F in the future. Currently use one of the brass plunger tip primers but want to make a flat horn primer as I don't like having the little brass hand grenade on my person.
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Dennis,
I use a small flat horn with a plunger type valve. The horn is small enough to fit nicely in my hip pocket. I carry 4fg or Swiss null b in it. I find this more efficient for me that priming from the horn. I have nerve damage in my hand, so I don't like handling a main horn and stopper twice. Instead I reach for the flat horn in my hip pocket. 2-3 plunges and back it goes. No valves or stoppers to handle. 4fg meters well from the valve. That helps too. One last thing: by carrying 4fg or nul b, I have helped two others on a woods walk who dry balled. We could meter fine power through the vent when we couldn't with other powders.
Regards,
Pletch
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Boy am I out numbered :o ;D
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I prime with Null B from a small flat horn carried in a pocket. It has a wooden plug with a vent pick on the horn end. I like having a 'manual' plug on the horn as this reminds me to plug the horn each time it is used. I have tried the brass 'push' primers and found sooner or later they will stick open and empty themselves where and when I don't want them to. The little flat horn is light and easy to slip into a pocket.
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I use 4F in a brass dribble primer. Always have, always will.
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I prime with some old Dupont I got in a trade ( red oval can w/small cap) . This stuff is coated like blasting powder. You can carry it all day in the drizzle, and she'll go off. I only use 4F if I'm shooting off the bench, and some times not even then. Some shooters are more equipment collectors than shooters.
Hungry Horse
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Depending on the gun I prime with the 2F or 3f in the horn I'm carrying. I have small priming horns and tiny priming gourds but have gotten away from using them. Just inconvenient.
Its like shop practice and gun makers. I can have someone explain how they do something and I think its a$$ backwards but it works fine for them.
I consider priming from the horn a PITA and too difficult. ;D
I think not having ffff along with a FL is a mistake.
I have always used a priming horn of some sort since I was a kid, I think its easier.
Dan
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I use 4F in a brass dribble primer. Always have, always will.
So do I plus a 2nd primer horn I stuck together antler & plunger spout. Those plunger spouts need watching worse in high humid conditions. Must take apart clean the plunger tube area and try not to lose that little bitty coil spring... Beware the brass since it can and has been a grenade.... After priming put it in safe protected place.
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I use 4F in a brass dribble primer. Always have, always will.
I am familiar with a modern powder dribbler like this
(https://www.grafs.com/uploads/pictures/128/ly7832201.jpg)
but don't think this is what you are talking about. How is yours made? Sounds like something I might be interested in making.
Dennis
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I consider priming from the horn a PITA and too difficult. ;D
I think not having ffff along with a FL is a mistake.
I have always used a priming horn of some sort since I was a kid, I think its easier.
Dan
I agree, it is a PITA for me too.
I guess my technique is sorely lacking as I end up overfilling the pan when I tried the horn method. I need to call up Mel Gibson or Daniel Day-Lewis to see how they did it while running thru the woods. ;D
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I prime from a small horn. And like an earlier post mentioned if you dry ball it is easier to get 4f powder through the flash hole. Ask me I know, so I always prime with 4f powder. Al
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Boy am I out numbered :o ;D
Sho do look dat way. ;D 8)
I still have an old can of Dupont 4F and a couple cans of Goex. It'll be a good while before I'll need any more 4F. That's my preference from waaay back. If I could log onto photobucket I'd post a pic of the little deer leg primer.
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i prime with 4f,basically because i have five pounds of it. here is my little priming horn.
(https://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u137/david50cal/016.jpg)
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NULL B
Centershot
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I started off using 4F and one of the small brass primers with the auto dispenser built into the tip. It worked okay for the most part, but after several people pointed out to me that I was hanging a potential “brass grenade” around my neck I decided not to use that any more. The pro’s and con’s of that theory can be debated in a different thread at a different time, but I decided discretion was the better part of valor. A personal decision.
So I looked around to see what the more knowledgeable and experienced shooters than I were using, and saw most of them were just using a small priming horn with a simple wooden stopper. Effective, and safe, and once you get on to it actually quite quick. So that’s what I went to. Works for me.
I’m still using 4F for primer. As far as I know we can’t get Nul B up here. Wish we could as I’d like to try some.
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Made these two many years ago...not HC but both made from modern brass cases that were lucky shots (another story). The small one is a 30-06 with a plunge valve. Gold plated and with a vent pick in the base plug. Throws a good 4Fg prime for most pistols and rifles. For larger guns (muskets, blunderbusses, small cannon, etc.) I use the one I made from a .50 BMG case with an on / off valve.
(https://preview.ibb.co/daiOSH/Primers_2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k2FEZx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/g2H6gc/Primers_3.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cRE8ux)
For more traditional use, I use this little priming horn:
(https://preview.ibb.co/hO17Mc/Salt_Horn_16.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gqQZ1c)
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I have tried the push type primers and never really cared for them.
Back in the late 1970's I came up with the idea of making a primer using a powder horn valve in a brass fixed measure. Then I necked down the spout to allow a smaller flow. Several years later (mid 90's?) at the SHOT Show, I was talking to the owner of House of Muskets/Treso and he spied the item on my table. He seemed to like the idea and I told him to take it and run with it. He made a much better looking product than I had and I have been buying them from him and selling them ever since.
http://store.powderhornsandmore.com/11frflflpanp.html
I carry it in my pouch in a loop. I hate stuff dangling off the strap.
I use Ffffg in it, although I have primed with Fffg, Ffg and in my Brown Bess Fg over the years. Actually, in that great big lock, I really did not notice any delay in timing with the Fg. It would even fire upside down.
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I'm one of the minority I guess. I have a small priming horn that I use when I'm hunting for the main charge and prime as well. It carries about enough powder for 5 or 6 shots plus prime. If I have to use more than that, I need to go back to the range. I use 3f for both, though I do have a bunch of 4f that I should use up. I switched to this set up because I found that I was just carrying too much stuff in my coat and couldn't find anything.
sr
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Finally, here it is. Deer leg bone and what appears to be (walnut?). It was made for me by a forum friend.
(https://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt74/hanshi_photo/PICT0632-1.jpg)
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Made these two many years ago...not HC but both made from modern brass cases that were lucky shots (another story). The small one is a 30-06 with a plunge valve. Gold plated and with a vent pick in the base plug. Throws a good 4Fg prime for most pistols and rifles...
(https://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q300/davec2_photos/Primers2.jpg)
(https://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q300/davec2_photos/Primers3.jpg)
That 30/06 plunger/primer/pick thing is a fantastic idea! I love it!
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That 30/06 plunger/primer/pick thing is a fantastic idea! I love it!
I am hesitate to mention this but I think it best that i do. Please be careful with large reservoir priming tools. They are after all small hang grenades just waiting for some careless action to bring them in contact with a spark. I had a friend of mine blow off his thumb and a large part of his index finger using a priming tool using a 50 cal BMG cartridge as the powder reservoir. He was a very experienced flint rifle shooter. It can happen to any of us.
The one I lost the bottom off of could easily have driven the base plug into my brain if a spark had accidentally ignited the full tube of 4F that I had in it. I assume the base plug was clinched on to allow it to easily blow off in case of an explosion. Hanging from my horn strap it could easily have been driven up thru my throat into my brain.
Dennis
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I like a small horn primer, with a long wooden plug. I have purchased several of the brass tubular dispensers over the years, but since Roger posted about an incident where permanent personal injury resulted from an explosive accident, I have gone to horn exclusively. Here is a pic of several of the ones I frequently use, including a shoulder carry horn that I shall retire to use with my future .25 cal rifle. The brass tubular one is covered with brain tanned moose skin to insulate against seven months out of twelve of freezing or lower temperatures. The glasses are for size reference. Old people apparently wear them, I'm told.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2F100_2939.jpg&hash=e0dc67281fcc55ea3d11661cf5f9a321c16b5a66)
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I lost the top (temporarily it turns out) to my plunge primer, so I got one of these:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/83/1/FLASK-PP-FF
It is a primer with a free flow valve, and I actually prefer it, as it seems to work with 3F as well as 4F. This, along with a pick is hung on a leather strap from my belt and put in the lower pocket of my carpenter's jeans (ca. 1810 :)) for matches. I don't like the hand grenade concept, but there is enough meat on my thigh that I'd probably live :)!
A friend made me a small horn with plug that I use most of the time for priming at woods walks. I've been trying 4F prime since my .50 told me 2F worked better for main charge, but I still use 3F for both at times, and it does seem to work better when it is sticky out.
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I use 4F for prime when plinking at the range because I bought two cans of it several years back. Enough for a lifetime supply, since that is all its good for. When hunting I use 2F in the horn and prime with it also. Usually fill the pan almost full because it takes up more space and when priming from the horn, it's hard not to anyway. I have tried both with back to back shots at the range, and if there is any difference, I can't differentiate one from the other. Trying to fiddle around with two different powders while in the woods is for the birds.
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same idea - but after breaking off the wooden plug once when out hunting, I carved a plug out of antler
(https://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/2012-11-13_19-13-43_469.jpg?t=1352853399)
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I have primed with Fffg, Ffg and in my Brown Bess Fg over the years.
Bigsmoke - What is the diameter of the flash hole in your Brown Bess?
It would even fire upside down.
I'm trying to picture this: Standing on your head at the firing range? Hanging upside down by your knees in a tree stand? Is there any real utility for this shooting position, or do you just shoot like that for a little variety?
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It would even fire upside down.
I'm trying to picture this: Standing on your head at the firing range? Hanging upside down by your knees in a tree stand? Is there any real utility for this shooting position, or do you just shoot like that for a little variety?
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I actually tried that once out of curiosity, not really expecting it to work. Just flipped the rifle over and held it trigger side up. I fully expected that if I did get a flash it would not ignite the main charge. Rifle could not tell the difference. Incidentally, if you do try this at home pay attention to where the vent is facing. This was one time where I actually thought it out ahead of time instead of "gaining experience".
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I have timed locks that were faster up side down that right side up. The prime only has time to fall a mm or two. You have priming falling into the rising sparks. IMHO a good rifle will fire just as fast upside down.
Just for fun we fired a large Siler up side down primed with canon grade Goex. In that case some of the chunks had fallen far enough not to ignite. However some chunks were inveloped by the fire before they fell away. Sometimes the chunk would ignite on one side and spin away like a pinwheel.
Regards,
Pletch
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Boy am I out numbered :o ;D
When reenacting 18th cent stuff I prime either from the main [only] horn or from the paper cartridge [military persona]. That means either ffg or fffg priming. No problems, although I have heard of the main horn blowing up from stray sparks....On the range I typically use either the small brass charger with either fffg or ffffg, or one of a couple of small horns I have....I've tried them all. Commonly when hunting I carry pre-measured loads and a small glass vial of priming powder. Whatever works...
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swiss null hands down