AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Kermit on May 19, 2013, 05:13:29 PM
-
Track of the Wolf has their full-size gin drawings on sale today only. You wouldn't know unless you get their e-mail promos.
-
I'll take two full sized gins.
-
Draw me a gin Tom, thanks!
full-sized too, no more halfsies
-
Make my gin a full-sized whiskey and I'll join yee.
-
I used to work for a builder who was one of the hardest working people I've ever known. But, he also had a certain tendancy to wish he'd been born rich, and idle. He developed a very good balance of very hard work, and very skilled relaxing, which I still try to emulate.
Every week or two, he would stop right in the middle of carrying a piece of plywood, or lugging a bundle of shingles, set it down, hold his arms out to his sides with his palms up, and say " did you guys feel that?" We'd all look at him and say "huh?"
His retort was always the same - He'd look up at the clear sky and say "I think it is about to gin and tonic out, we'd better get packed up and head over to my house." So the tools would all get put away, cords rolled up, compressors drained, and bathing suits would get dug out of our trucks. We'd head over to his pool and enjoy a good downpour. ;D
-
Gin and Tonic on a hot day with a twist of lime. Tough to beat. Its kinda warm today. Bob
-
I bought a set of those TOW plans once, I should have spent the money on gin. Fair job on the side views, no top or bottom drawings, just a fuzzy photograph that was slightly out of scale with the inked portion. I suppose one could generate one's own proper drawings off of the plan, but then who needed them in the first place. First job I had out of HS was drawing and inking plats and topographical maps for a civil engineering firm in Atlanta. I can draw plans, but not on gin.
-
If I'd tried to provide any amusement, I'd have failed utterly. ;D :D ;D
-
Sorry Kermit, Acer started it. Well, I mean there was that typo and all, but a true gentleman would have ignored it. ;)
dave (ducking out the back door)
-
Hardly a true Gentleman, I do own up to my small transgression of propriety. However, I see a horde of willing and able folks jumping on the opportunity to take advantage of an innocent typo!
BTW, Official opening day of G&T season, by the way, is May 27.
-
About a month ago I bought Track's Kit Carson plan to see what it showed. I expected it to be good. It does have nice FULL-sized color photos of the rifle built from the plan, and comments on how to build, but no parts list and the dimensions have no basis in reality. Kit was a small man, five foot four or some such, and his rifle had a short length of pull, maybe 13 1/4". Track's plan has a 14 5/8" LOP. I Have Jim Gordon's book with good photos of the Kit Carson rifle, which I scaled out. I calculated a 13.17" LOP and a heel to nose cap stock length of 30". Track's heel to nose cap stock is 33 1/8". The Carson butt plate is probably the same one on the Jim Bridger Hawken and that is Track's#BP-HAWK-JB-I, about 4 5/8" tall. (I made my Bridger Hawken with a 4.5" butt plate). Track shows one 4.9" tall, which must be their BP-HAWK-SE-I. So if you want to build a Hawken that looks like Kit Carsons', be advised about this plan. The Kit Carson and Jim Bridger rifle are nearly twins, except the Bridger has a 1 1/8" barrel and the Carson a one-inch barrel. I also got the Hawken fullstock rifle plan, and have not examined it yet, except to find that it has a 14 1/4" length of pull. This is 3/4" longer than I find comfortable to shoot.
-
And last year's season ends May 26--yes?
Mine are a shot-and-a-half of Bombay, Schweppes, and an eighth of a lime, well squoze. Stop by; it's always after 5 somewhere, and always after May 27. We can talk LOP and such other arcane matters as you please.
-
I think it should be pointed out that many of Tracks plans(though not all) mostly the color ones are plans for Tracks kits.While useful for making one of there kits they are not particularly useful in making a correct copies of original American Longrifles.
Mitch
-
Herb, that's a good assessment of the plans. They are at best contemporary builder's ideas of how to improve upon the Hawken brother's designs. Yes, there are lots of Hawken 'flavours' there.
In defense of that concept, my A. Verner rifle is a good example. I wanted a documentary copy of his famous fancy rifle, so I built it exactly as the photos and documentary evidence called for. I ended up with an excellent copy, but it isn't the most pleasant rifle to shoot. It has a 13 1/2" LOP, and not quite enough drop at the comb for my long arms and neck, so if I'm not careful, it'll crack my cheek. Just adding 1/2" to the LOP would have almost completely eliminated that, and made a rifle much more shooter friendly.
In Hawken rifles, there is a lot of variations in the dimensions of the stock's butt and forearm. Just using those rifles as an example, using TOW's plans is certainly a good base from which a builder, especially one without a lot of experience, can design a rifle that suits their body shape and shooting style. I have purchased quite a number of their sheets over the years, and used them as another piece of information to help with rifle design. Now, I draw my own plans, often just the butt plate to entry pipe, but sometimes the whole shebang, and sometimes even top and bottom views. Making the drawings yourself goes a long way to helping the builder understand the important relationships that will make the rifle a success, or 'I wish I'd have..."
-
Taylor's point is well made, especially when you go to use the drawing for another rifle, you can tweak out some of the bugs from the first time around.
-
Maybe G&T would be a great patch lube.
Might be a good use for cheapo gin and generic tonic. No doubt it would clean a barrel. Might be marketable as "Dr. Quinine's patent bore cleaner and group tightner."
-
I do have two sets of their plans, and agree completely with Tom and Taylor above. The plans i have are not supposed to be blueprints to a particular rifle, but are a complete treatment of how it all goes together to become a sound long arm. Quite worth the few bucks for any novice i'd think. and they look impressive to visitors when tacked upon the wall. ;D
And the "sale" is over too. 2-for-one would have interested me. These one-dollar off hooptie doos make me want to get off their list.
Now, i thot we were talking about Martinis... ;)
-
It would be great if some one,,would put a full set of plans together for a Hawken rifle
-
I've built some rifles without drawings, and some with.
A drawing is a time saver; a roadmap to guide you. If you're inclined to design your own guns, a drawing will help you visualize what you had in mind; an example might be locating the ramrod pipes, placement of the parts, getting the proportions right on paper before you cut wood. (oops, I cut too much off...I wish I'd done a drawing first)
-
I like the drawings from Muzzle Loader Builder Supply. I wholeheartedly agree with everything Acer said, especially from my perspective as a beginner. A good drawing and guidance from an experienced builder are two excellent resources that keep mistakes to a minimum. :)
-
Would I be correct in thinking that before trying to work up a drawing to your own design it would be essential to have examples of the lock and trigger that you wish to use on your desk?
I'm thinking that while barrels and ramrods can be bought to size, as it were, the precise alignment of lock and trigger is something you would need to determine for yourself. I haven't seen any alignment templates offered by makers...
I would like to design my own gun (possibly only as a paper exercise!) but it seems pointless unless a valid depth for the stock in the breech area can be determined. The only way I can think to do this would be to mount the action components on scrap wood and adjust until they work properly, then measure.
I might have overlooked the easy way...
-
A cheap and effective way to have examples of locks and triggers is to get a Track of the Wolf catalog. It has full size pictures, including the inside of a lot of locks. Photocopy the picture on a transparency and you have a full size picture of the lock and the location of the sear and other parts. You can cut them out and stack them on your stock drawing to see where everything can end up.
-
There was a set of prints by Wayne Robidoux (not sure of the spelling)
that seemed to be good. Anyone know if he is still around.
Bob Roller
-
Would I be correct in thinking that before trying to work up a drawing to your own design it would be essential to have examples of the lock and trigger that you wish to use on your desk?
I'm thinking that while barrels and ramrods can be bought to size, as it were, the precise alignment of lock and trigger is something you would need to determine for yourself. I haven't seen any alignment templates offered by makers...
In industry, the designer can download exact size DWG and DXF file formats for most components that one will use on their machine designs. However, for gunbuilding, no such files exist. The Track catalog suggestion by Rich is as good as we have.
I usually buy stuff that I think will work for my gun, then use it to develop the final drawing. If I can't use it as is, I modify it to fit.
If I can't use it, it goes in the drawer with all the other stuff I can't use. :D
-
If I can't use it, it goes in the drawer with all the other stuff I can't use. :D
Acer,
Only one drawer.....what a rookie!
David
-
There was a set of prints by Wayne Robidoux (not sure of the spelling)
that seemed to be good. Anyone know if he is still around.
Bob Roller
Hi Bob;
Wayne no longe fiddles with those drawings, his son has possession of them. I spoke with the son a 2+ months ago and he promised to have some copies made and get back with me, said he would only charge what it cost to make them plus mailing. I have not heard back from him. I do plan to phone him again in the near future.
dave
-
Acer,
Only one drawer.....what a rookie!
David
Hmmmm....I never said how many drawers full of stuff. I'll bet there are seven or eight drawers full of stuff. And I'm not going to admit to any shelves, racks, or boxes.
-
I bought a set of Wayne's plans when they first came out, and based my first half dozen Hawken rifles on them. I even filed out a breech and tang, a lock, and triggers using them, and they worked very well. They are made with a draftsman's eye, with radii and mutitudinous dimensions. My set shows a lot of water under the bridge. Followed carefully, they'll give you a very nice S. Hawken rifle.
-
Track of the Wolf catalog... has full size pictures, including the inside of a lot of locks.
Thanks for pointing this out - it's exactly what I need.
Time to get a catalogue!
It's very gratifying to see that I seem to be thinking along quite reasonable lines so far - but there's plenty of time for that to change ;D