AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Dennis Glazener on June 15, 2013, 07:06:01 PM
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I am making a trigger and trigger plate out of an old wrought iron hinge. So far lots of nice wrought iron chips that I am saving. Want to use them in either AF or Vinegar/iron stain. Problem is they are stained with cutting oil, anyone know a good way to clean? These are fine chips that are too small for the wire screens that I have. Thought about washing in a series of detergent water, pouring it off etc. Then letting them dry.
Dennis
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Dennis, How about laying the chips out on a heat resistant surface, then heating them with a propane torch. The chips should flash red hot in little more than an instant, and 'poof' goes the oil!
John
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Dennis, I think I would try acetone(finger nail polish remover). Good for de-oiling and also evaporates quick.
MikeH
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A quart canning jar with a coffee filter rubber banded to the top with a depression it in. Put the chips in the filter and spray with Gunk, a degreaser, it is water-soluble found in auto parts stores, then rinse with warm water while they are still in the filter. Spread out on newspaper and let 'em dry.
Tim C.
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A quart canning jar with a coffee filter rubber banded to the top with a depression it in. Put the chips in the filter and spray with Gunk, a degrease found in auto parts stores, then rinse with warm water while they are still in the filter. Spread out on newspaper and let 'em dry.
Tim C.
The other two suggestions probably would work well but I think I will try this one. Have some cone shaped coffee filters, don't know why I didn't think of it (thought of old panty hose but figured most of the chips would stick to it). Have some acetone that I can use without going to buy any.
Thanks
Dennis
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I've used detergent in really hot water, then rinse a few times.
I have cut cast iron dry, and have saved a bunch of shavings. I can bring them to Dixon's if anyone wants to concoct their own salad dressing.
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Neat! Vinegar and oil finish! :D Interested in how it turns out.
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Panty hose are made out of a synthetic material that will probably disolve when you pour Acetone on it. The coffee filter or a piece of an old cotton T Shirt will probably work better.
Capt. David
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Just washing them in Dawn dish detergent and rinse in cold water should do it. Another good source for fine chips is any auto parts or garage that turns rotors & drums. Cast steel and they usually have buckets of it. Float off the brake dust and rinse and good to go.
Saw somewhere that Heinz is supposed to be marketing a white vinegar that is 6% acidity for canning but haven't found any yet.
Has anyone compared or noticed any difference between solutions using cider vs white vinegar?
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Here's some Heinz Cleaning Vinegar at 6%. It says safe for cooking too, so I suppose that it is pure vinegar without other cleaning chemicals.
http://www.heinzvinegar.com/products-cleaning-vinegar.aspx
I googled around a little and couldn't find where to buy it.
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Distilled white vinegar. Found at kroger, walmart, and other stores.
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I think most vinegar is around 4 or 5%.? The 6% might be better because it will hold more iron.
To you chemists- What about this stuff? - -
http://www.amazon.com/Maestro-Gro-20-Vinegar/dp/B0052E9BH2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hg_1
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The generic stuff from the grocery store works, but it takes a long time. I have found that it really takes a few months of brewing to really saturate the solution. I use small slices of wrought iron bar, that I allow to rust first, in my solution. Chips and filings should work better. I have also tried steel wool. It dissolves quickly, but it gives a more black color than the rusty wrought iron. I like a more dark brown color to my stain and the rusty wrought iron seems to give me that. I mainly use this on leather. It is more color fast and easier to use that oil based leather dye.
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Distilled white vinegar from the grocery store is 5% acidity.
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Distilled white vinegar from the grocery store is 5% acidity.
Depends on the brand, check the label because I've seen it from 3-6%.
Mark
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We can purchase pickling vinegar which has 6% acid rather than the 5 % regular stuff.
Also, some of the specialty stores carry wine vinegar with a 6 % rating.
I like to use the 6% and wrought iron filings. I have a brew going all the time.
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Folks,
I was watching Food Network a couple of weeks ago and the program mentioned vinegar that is available in speciallty shops that is 20%. I can't remember what it was called other than super strong.
Coryjoe
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web search results:
You might be able to get 20% acidity vinegar at your local nursery, and there are also quite a few places on-line that sell it. Here are a couple.
Clean Air Gardening:
http://www.cleanairgardening.com/weedvin…
Marshall Grain:
http://www.marshallgrain.com/marshall/pr…
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Marshall grain link does not work.
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http://www.marshallgrain.com/
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I've tried 20% vinegar. Can't recommend it. It produced a lot of sludge and a dark almost black stain.
I gather this is because there is to little water to produce the needed acidity.
Acidity = H+ concentration
Vinegar = CH3COOH
CH3COOH + H2O <=> CH3COO- + +H30
Best regards
Rolf
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Again, I agree with Rolf. An acid works by dissassociating water and causing it to form hydronium ions, H30. So you need the water! The strength of an acid is the chemical power it has to cause the hydronium ion formation - not simply the concentration. While increasing concentration of some acids, nitric, hydrochloric and sulfuric, will increase the chemical activity of the mixture, other acids are too weak to make good use of the increased concentration. Acetic is one such acid.
Berst Regards,
John Cholin
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Got it! (I think ;D)
Thanks Rolf and John.
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I am making a trigger and trigger plate out of an old wrought iron hinge. So far lots of nice wrought iron chips that I am saving. Want to use them in either AF or Vinegar/iron stain. Problem is they are stained with cutting oil, anyone know a good way to clean? These are fine chips that are too small for the wire screens that I have. Thought about washing in a series of detergent water, pouring it off etc. Then letting them dry.
Dennis
You can degrease with alcohol, Acetone or any solvent that evaporates away wrap the filings in a rag and pour solvent through or use a coffee filter. But if reused the solvent can hold enough oil to leave a small amount on the part/chips so use clean solvent.
I have an old light wagon tire. I cut off a chunk and made chips with the mill. Made acid stain. Same exact color as that made with degreased steel wool or small finishing nails. Its the IRON in the steel wool or nails or wagon tire. it does not matter where the iron comes from, though something like 4150.
So I don't bother.
Dan
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The best source of iron I have found yet is a finial for an ornamental iron fence. I bought one finial at a metal supply house for about a buck and a half. I tried the cast iron from a lodge dutch oven and all sorts of stuff and this thing just makes a perfect color. And I probably have enough finial left for the rest of my life.
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I was going to say why clean them off as the acid works on the iron, the grease might slow the start of the reaction( but I doubt it much ) but Dan said it better.
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I've been using the filings from sharpening saws. I just wrap a magnet in a ziplock bag, then set it on the floor under the saw filer. By the time I've got a couple saws re-toothed and sharpened, I'll have enough filings for a batch of stain.
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When using vinegar/iron stain on leather, has anyone noticed an acidic effect of metal, such as brass cartridge cases. I used Ferric Nitrate solution on a cartridge belt once, and I could not keep the brass from corroding - and fast! I neutralized the leather with baking soda, and then ammonia, and it still was hard on the polished brass. If vinegroon is less corrosive, I'm going to make some up.
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Taylor, You shouldn't neutralize leather. It will cause it to dry rot. Baking Soda will turn leather into cardboard. I had to repair a couple of my bags because of it. I always rinse my leather after staining until little or no stain comes out. That should take out any extra stain that might cause you a problem. I have never experience the problem you described with either AQ or vinegaroon on leather. If properly made, both should be only mildly acidic; but I have noticed that some of my AQ on a rag will rust any iron nearby. The vinegar certainly starts out less acidic than nitric. It takes many months to brew proper vinegaroon using small pieces of wrought iron.
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Thanks Mark. I really liked the even black the Ferric Nitrate gave the leather, so I'll make up some vinegar/iron solution and give it another go.
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The Vinegaroon works just as well on leather as the AQ, but it can take a long time to brew. If you want a dark brown or black, it is better than commercial leather dye or stain. Vinegaroon takes relatively little to do the job as compared to oil stain/dye and it doesn't continue to wash out nearly as bad once you have rinsed it.
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Taylor,
When you use ferric nitrate, no matter what you use it on, you still have to heat the stained object to force the nitrate to combine with water, making nitric acid (HNO3) that can evaporate from the stained object. If you don't, the nitrate will remain in the stained object and, over time, absorb water vapor from the air and turn into nitric acid. That nitric acid will corrode almost everything except gold and platinum.
Using vinegar/iron stain the vinegar (acetic acid) has such a high vapor pressure at room temperature that no heating is necessary to drive it off the stained object. Therefore, little, if any, corrosion will result.
Best Regards,
John Cholin
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John, that's the answer! The Ferric Nitrate turns the leather jet black without heating and so remains in the leather as acidic. And that's what I did.
Need some vinegaroon!!
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Being a NEWBEE here I don't reply to posts, I read a lot and learn. My hobby for the last 40 some years is in the automotive/custom cars and custom painting. We are currently finishing a 64 Rolls silver shadow for a banker. Back to the subject: when we have bare metal and have to start painting you have to make sure there is NO type of oil on the metal. be it from your hands or oils from say air driven tools, we use a product called metal prep. Just spray it on (Hand pump spray bottle) blow it off and spray. I mean spray in just a few minutes. You can't go to lunch and come back and spray it, you will all ready have rusty brown color covering the metal, it's already starting to rust. You can purchase it at any auto paint supply store, drop the filings in a glass jar, add the metal prep to the jar, leave for a short time and drain off. Just thought it might help.
Greg
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Has anybody had the vinegaroon turn leather a blue-black color? I occasionally have that happen and don't know why.
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Blue-black is the normal color for vinegaroon and sometimes AQ. AQ tends to be a little more brown, but it all depends on the amount of tanic acid in the leather. If you don't want black, don't use either of the products on leather. If you get dark brown, that is a bonus.
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Has anybody had the vinegaroon turn leather a blue-black color? I occasionally have that happen and don't know why.
Yes, vinegar black will produce that shade on light veg. tan A little neatsfoot or olive oil on the leather will kill the blue somewhat.
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Interesting. It happens on some pieces but not others for me, with my batch.
Thanks!