AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: davec2 on September 01, 2013, 10:16:42 PM
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Some time back I was perusing photos of a large bore English rifle built by one of my favorite contemporary makers, Stephen Alexander. This rifle had a rear "ghost ring" sight mounted very close to the breech which peaked my interest. I made up some dummy sights and glued them to the barrel of a build I am working on and I love the sight picture through them. In querying Stephen on the rear sight, he told me that this type of sight was frequently used on Turkish flint firearms and on some English and Continental ones as well. Does any one out there have any more information or examples of similar rear sights used in the 18th or early 19th centuries?
Thanks
(https://preview.ibb.co/hYPS4x/Stephen_Alexander_Rifle_2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cdT9HH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dADn4x/Stephen_Alexander_Rifle_3.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kzApHH)
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I really like this idea and will follow this thread with interest.
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Does any one out there have any more information or examples of similar rear sights used in the 18th or early 19th centuries?
Lowell Haarer has a really neat forged iron sight with similiar aperture on an early VA rifle. It fits on the tang, held in place by the tang screw and is removable with no evidence it was ever there. I discussed it with him but for the life of me I can not remember if the idea was his or if he had seen it on an original rifle.
Dennis
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A while back I think someone posted this picture on this site:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dPOLpx/1670_Peep_Sight_Neal_collection.jpg) (http://ibb.co/joTmUx)
It is supposed to be of a rear sight made about 1670 and on one of the firearms in the W. Keith Neal collection, but I don't have any more information than that. Similar but not exactly a ghost ring mounted very near the breech.
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Hey Frog,
It looks like just me, you, and Dennis are interested in this one. I did find a few peep sighted Turkish flintlock photos and, apparently, peep sights have been around since Roman days (museum pieces, crossbows from Roman to middle age Europe with peep sights),
(https://image.ibb.co/jvPRUx/Turkish_Wallgun_6_zps07c337b8.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nttaNH)
(https://image.ibb.co/hQaH4x/Turkish_Wallgun_5_zpsa2c88f87.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kiUc4x)
(https://image.ibb.co/f6YtcH/turkishmusket_14_1_2028_zps1fa2d148.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cmwqPx)
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I really like this idea and will follow this thread with interest.
I'm with Frog ...
I had ghost-rings on my woods rifles and some shotguns.
They work GREAT for 'old eyes' ... I'm just hoping that they are PC and HC on long rifles from the Colonies!
Dennis,
A screw or two on the tang (Ala Thompson-Center) wouldn't hurt my feelings either!
Cheers,
Smoketown
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Why is it called a "ghost ring"?
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Davec2,
I don't know if that sight is pc. or not, but I can tell you that they work and work well. A good friend of mine puts those
sights on most all of his guns. He refers to them as a "tombstone sight". I have shot them a lot of times, especially on
squirrel rifles. They gather the light exceptionally well but you have to counterbore the front side of the sight so you don't
get a reflection. You just need one hole to sight through, maybe 3/16. Depends on the shooter's preference. If you leave
small hump on the front of your tang, you can dovetail them and mount them right at the breech. That way, you can move
your sight a bit if you need to without distorting your wood. When you use the larger hole in the sight, it seems that your
front sight just automatically centers it's self with the peep hole. No need for multiple holes. That's all I know.
Can you post some more pics of that sight that you posted, maybe parallel to the barrel. That's a fine looking sight. I think
if you was to try one, you would like it. I certainly do. Regards,
MikeH
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A while back I think someone posted this picture on this site:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq300%2Fdavec2_photos%2F1670-PeepSightNealcollection_zpsa2674b30.jpg&hash=c7e0bf6e6286e5a6d76ed86a285521b36c074b2c)
Ok I will 'fess up and say that several years ago I accidentally cut cut the rear tenon dovetail on the top of the barrel flat rather than on the bottom, yes I came close to crying :-[ Thankfully it was on a oct/round fowler and rather than plugging it I made a "wing sight" similiar to the one shown. Thanks to some photos of originals that James Rogers showed me. I absolutely loved that sight and probably will put one on the new fowler I am presently building.
Dennis
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Check with the smoothbore rules before trekking all the way to a match. Many ranges don't allow a rear sight on smoothies.
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Lowell Haarer has a really neat forged iron sight with similiar aperture on an early VA rifle. It fits on the tang, held in place by the tang screw and is removable with no evidence it was ever there. I discussed it with him but for the life of me I can not remember if the idea was his or if he had seen it on an original rifle.
Dennis
This sounds pretty slick, 18th c. or not. Does Mr. Haarer sell them? Do you have a picture or know where one can be seen? Thanks.
-Ron
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I have pictures of German match/snaplocks from about 1520s-50s from the Germanischenationalmuseum in Nueremberg which had peep and tube sights on them if your interested.
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Lowell Haarer has a really neat forged iron sight with similiar aperture on an early VA rifle. It fits on the tang, held in place by the tang screw and is removable with no evidence it was ever there. I discussed it with him but for the life of me I can not remember if the idea was his or if he had seen it on an original rifle.
Dennis
This sounds pretty slick, 18th c. or not. Does Mr. Haarer sell them? Do you have a picture or know where one can be seen? Thanks.
-Ron
Ron,
I don't know contact him here http://www.lowellhaarer.com/ and ask him about the forged iron tang sight that he had on one of his rifles at the Harrisonburg VA show. I might be interested in buying one as well.
Dennis
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remembered that I had posted that pic with a group I was a member of. http://www.fahnlein.com/forums/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=237&photoid=5391
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Kuechenreiter used to mount their sights that far back on some of their guns and frequently had flip up sitghts. But I don't recall them being peep sights other than the large schuetzen types.
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You might want to take a look at the Nathaniel Rowe rifle in the virtual Library. It has this type of sight, but placed in the usual sight location for most KY Rifles.
Dick
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Why is it called a "ghost ring"?
bjmac,
Google "Ghost Ring Sight" and then look at the peep / aperture sights.
Think "Williams Peep Sights"
Remove the "sighting disk" and what you have when you peer through it is a "ghost ring" that allows you to get on target quickly.
Col. Jeff Cooper popularized the concept.
Cheers,
Smoketown
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Thank you Smoketown for your response. Info was very helpful ( and a lot of it!!!)
That is some great info,
BJ