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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: moleeyes36 on September 05, 2013, 02:27:47 AM

Title: Inletting black
Post by: moleeyes36 on September 05, 2013, 02:27:47 AM
I've been using Jerrow's Inletting Black for years and there has to be a cleaner process than that.  I admit that I'm pretty good at making a mess, but it's a real pain trying to use this stuff without getting it all over yourself and the gun stock.  I end up looking like Pig Pen from the Peanuts comic strip every time I use it, especially on something like a butt plate.  And as you know, with the oil base it's nearly impossible to get it out of things once it's there.  What do you guys that build more than the couple of guns a year like I do use for inletting?  I hope there's a good, and cleaner, alternative to using Inletting Black.

Don Richards
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: smokinbuck on September 05, 2013, 02:58:19 AM
Just use an oil lamp with a chimney. The soot works well is controllable and wipes off easily.
Mark
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Kevin Houlihan on September 05, 2013, 03:11:40 AM
...or without a chimney.  Works great, cleans up easy.  You can find old oil lamps cheap at antique stores - they're even cheaper when there is no chimney.  :)
Kevin
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: rsells on September 05, 2013, 03:46:30 AM
I do the same as Mr. Snap.  I use an oil lamp without the globe.  It has worked good for 30 some odd years.  Every now and again, I do have a hard time getting oil to use locally.  It is not near as messy as the inlet black.
                                                                                   Roger Sells
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: gwill on September 05, 2013, 03:50:37 AM
Here's a definitely non-HC option. I use dry erase markers. They are so much neater in my hands than inletting black.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: moleeyes36 on September 05, 2013, 04:40:50 AM
I like the dry erase marker idea, I'm going to have to try that one.  I've used the oil lamp approach and it worked well.  However, it set off the smoke detector and my bride of many years was not happy with me at all. 

Don Richards 
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: TPH on September 05, 2013, 05:35:54 PM
I've used Jerrow's for years and have no real objection to the mess. But I have also used candle stubs. I am clumsy and fear an oil lamp - knock a candle over and it is not too bad a fire hazard, but a lamp with oil makes me nervous.  :o
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on September 05, 2013, 06:27:56 PM
I like Jarrow's too and have used it exclusively since I was introduced to it in '79.  I'm on my second jar now.  I apply it with a small toothbrush that hangs near my vise.  From time to time, I give the brush a few drops of WD 40 to reactivate the black, and it goes a long way.
For clean up on the metal parts, I hose the parts down with WD 40 and wipe clean with a paper towel or shop rag.  Dish soap and water removes it easily from your hands.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: fastfrankie on September 05, 2013, 08:07:07 PM
I made up my own inletting black some years ago by taking some lamp black powder (forgotten where I got it now) and mixing it up with some cold cream that I "borrowed" from my ex-wife. It worked great and cleaned up relatively easily.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Woodbutcher on September 06, 2013, 05:10:40 AM
 I'm waiting for the guy to respond to this with using lipstick. He said that it's cheap, easy to use, and clean up, and smells nice.
 I'm in enough trouble at the fabric department, as well as buying fingernail polish. That stuff is bullletproof, flies, arrows, gunsights, and all the colors. No one will ever trust me when I start buying lipstick.
  Let's see now, white would be nice for walnut, some of those crazy purples should really stand out on maple. At a dollar a stick the price is right.                                 Woodbutcher
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Acer Saccharum on September 06, 2013, 05:57:19 AM
I use inlet black on a toothbrush, just barely enuff on it to transfer. While the black is so light on the parts, it's plenty enuff to show up on maple.

Taylor, thanks for the WD trick. I may make the remains in the little jar last the rest of my life!
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Curtis on September 06, 2013, 07:10:20 AM
Try putting a bit of Jarrows in a plastic lid and lightly daub it with an old shaving brush,  apply it to your part to inlet with a light hand.  You will be very surprised how a little goes a long way, and the shaving brush allows for a very light coating.

Curtis
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: moleeyes36 on September 06, 2013, 05:22:26 PM
Well I think I've always been applying too much of the Jerrow's and that's main problem.  I've been trying to put a light coat on with a Q-tip and that's messy.  The next time I use it I'll try applying it very lightly with a small tooth brush. 

But before I use Jerrow's again, I just have to try the dry erase marker method.  I'm going to inlet the ramrod entry pipe this afternoon and see how it works for me.  But just to be on the safe side when I go out to buy a dry erase maker, I'm going to buy a small soft toothbrush.  ;) 

Don Richards
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: WadePatton on September 06, 2013, 05:30:29 PM
... I do have a hard time getting oil to use locally. ...
                                                                                   Roger Sells
I've started using "citronella torch fuel" (available at dollar general-and similar for 6 bucks a half-gallon) in a lamp in the house.  No extra soot, just less mosquitos.  I'll not hesitate to use that in the shop as well.  Many places around here sell kerosene.  I don't understand the shortage.  HTH (hope that helps)
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Chris Treichel on September 06, 2013, 05:57:36 PM
For a very small area of metal against wood I use a sharp pencil, the graphite rubs off on the wood and doesn't make a mess where you don't want it.  You can't see it well on metal so its not a fix all solution but works in some places where the black or white is too much.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on September 06, 2013, 07:18:37 PM
One thing to remember when using inletting black...you're looking for black everywhere along the wall of the inlet.  The absence of black is a gap.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Mark Elliott on September 06, 2013, 08:14:34 PM
I use a large black felt tip pen for most of my marking needs.   It is very clean but requires high pressure to transfer.   If I need a finer transfer agent,  I go to the HC solution; a beeswax candle.   I have both a candle and a couple of markers on my stocking bench.   The more guns I do,  the better I get at reading the indentations without a transfer agent, at least with regard to the lock.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: sweed on September 06, 2013, 09:21:53 PM
Somewhere, I'm not sure where ???, I saw someone using brass cartridge cases, to make a lamp blacker. Seems he used a 30-30 case for the oil and wick, and maybe a .32 acp case as a lid/snuffer. There are many combos that would work. He made some sort of base so it would be more stable. Better than a candle, safer than a lamp, and less heat in the shop.  ;)


Also for cleanup, try de-natured alcohol. Dries fast and clean. Keep some around, and use it when in doubt, or you don't want grease, or soap. It's suprising  :o what all it will clean!!
Sweed
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: B.Habermehl on September 06, 2013, 10:13:18 PM
I use jarrows black. I use a acid or flux brush trimmed back to about 1/4 inch long bristles or a bit shorter. BJH
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: shortbarrel on September 07, 2013, 01:00:24 AM
i use bearing spotting blue with a little light oil added. use a one 1/4 artist brush to apply the blue, works on light and dark woods as well. as the fellow above said, he was going to inlet a entrance thimble in the afternoon, sure wish i could get a 85% spot in 8 or 10 hours. guess i'm just  old and slow.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Dan Fruth on September 07, 2013, 01:15:58 AM
I'm with Mark...I've been using large tip black magic markers for some time now, and they work very well...the small tip pens work great for small pieces, and they will "read" the stamping on the bottom flat of a rifle barrel, which is great for close work...Clean up is easy with lacquer thinner and a rag for removing from the metal part. Once I'm within limits , I scrape off the black from the wood, and I'm done...No mess with lamps and soot. I also use burnt sienna pigment and oil mixed to a thick consistency( a trick I learned from Jack Haugh) and that works well also......Dan
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Mark Elliott on September 07, 2013, 02:35:15 AM
I use denatured alcohol to clean off the ink if I care to.   Usually,  I just leave it as not one is likely to ever see it.     If they do see it,  they will see how well I inlet their barrel. ;D
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: kutter on September 07, 2013, 06:47:06 AM
I still use Jerrows for inletting stocks. Most of the time too much is applied to the parts and it gets all over the place. A tooth brush for an applicator, once it's charged with a bit of the stuff can go a long long way into a project before you need any more of it on the brush. Yes you'll probably still get some on your hands, tools and other wood surfaces, but it cleans up w/o much of a fuss. If it doesn't,,then you're using too much to begin with.

A couple of full time stockers I know use lipstick. Red for walnut seems to be the choice .
I tried it and it works well. I just didn't like the way I had to carefully scribble it onto and into all the corners of the parts. Not easy to coat the areas down in between where the lipstick won't fit either.
So much easier w/a toothbrush application of Jerrows or something similar.

Oil lamp/smoke I use for metal fitting. Jerrows is too thick for that when fitting locking bolts and the like so I just use it for all metal to metal fitting.
I tried to use it for stock work and the continuous smoke output of the lamp got to me in the shop.
Lighting, extinguishing and relighting the lamp was a pain. So back to inletting black I went for stocks.
Smoke fitting metal parts,,,I simply use a cigarette lighter. Pull the wick up a bit and you get a nice sooty flame.


Whatever works...
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: flehto on September 07, 2013, 04:00:12 PM
I've been using "Permatex" Prussian Blue....got in the habit when in the toolroom. I mix it w/ blue bearing grease for low absorption into the wood and somehow when the final finishing is completed, there's no trace of it on surfaces that get finished.

Have a question....how long does it take to "soot up" say a TG?....Fred
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Keb on September 07, 2013, 04:06:32 PM
The trigger guard is no problem but a 4 foot barrel, well that's another thing. :/
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Meteorman on September 08, 2013, 12:49:32 AM

A couple of full time stockers I know use lipstick. Red for walnut seems to be the choice .
I tried it and it works well. I just didn't like the way I had to carefully scribble it onto and into all the corners of the parts. Not easy to coat the areas down in between where the lipstick won't fit either.

I use lipstick exclusively.  With a small paint brush (like you used to use with Testor's paint to paint your model cars) dedicated as an applicator.  I dont apply the actual cylinder of lipstick to the parts, the brush is loaded from the tube of lipstick and then painted thinly on the parts; the small paintbrush can access everywhere.
/mike millard
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: WadePatton on September 09, 2013, 11:48:30 PM
i needed a wick for my oil lamp (small squat wide base (about 4")) and thought about a shoestring, then realized a had a bag full of discarded clothes for rags...so i cut a wick from an old heavy cotton shirt.  Then i ran out of kerosene/lamp oil, so i loaded it up with OTR diesel fuel.  No problem at all with soot.  I turn up the wick to soot parts, turn it back down to a flicker for the rest of the time.  But i'm going back with citronella spiked oil tonight to combat the flippin' 35-generations-in-one-summer-plus-oversized mosquito crop we have going on this year...plus i kinda like the smell.

When i get bored with soot, i'll use cosmetics using a cotton swab to smear the stuff on thinly--or using the ? "pencil" (i'm no cosmonaut  ;D)   i found which is much harder and easier to apply than lip goo.  i'm going to seef i can find an artists brush i have stashed here somewhere for tonight.

I've found that my hands stay cleaner if i wipe away (rag pulled tight over wood for "precision") all the excess soot from the areas of the metal that aren't necessary to be sootified.

I might settle on some regular thing eventually, but as you see i'm still going at it from multiple angles (and sometimes with loud music).

also, cleaner...faster?  For the non-HC,  try aerosol ether (away from open flame you know*) a/k/a starting fluid.  That and carburetor (remember those?) cleaner are my fast and furious cleaning solutions.  Yes, aero brake cleaner is great too, but leaves a bit more residue than carb cleaner. 

*I actually know a guy who had an ether can "backflash" and explode on him.  it _is_ that volatile, do pay attention-and know that it will rupture in the direction of the seam.

Also "denatured" alcohol is grain alcohol (ethyl) with poison added.  I use "grain alcohol" from the liquor store (more uses, less toxicity) when alcohol of that type is needed. 


Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: eddillon on September 10, 2013, 12:08:06 AM
Cheap lamp oil:  Charcoal lighter or mineral spirits.  :)
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: SuperCracker on September 11, 2013, 04:01:10 AM
I know this will sound completely ridiculous but I did try it on a lock and it works once you get used to it

I took a blush brush from my girlfriend, cleaned it up then charged it with a tiny bit of petroleum jelly.  Really tiny. Then I rubbed it all over the cleaned up internals of the lock so it left a very fine coating.  I then sprinkled paprika all over the internals which stuck to the fine film. The paprika transferred to the inlet when the lock was trial fitted and you can scrape it right off without it leaving residue. It worked well indicating the contact areas but was easy to clean up and didn't make a mess.

I got the idea when I noticed something like it being done in the background of a picture of the Westley Richards shop. Although I imagine they were using very fine walnut sawdust. Paprika was the closest thing I could readily come up with. I used it once the inlet is close with lamp black but there's still enough wood left to go that finishing will clean up the residual soot.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: billm on September 11, 2013, 06:20:23 AM
I was at dixons one day and bought some black.Chuck pulled an old soup can with a flux brush in it out of the back.He takes a small dab on the brush and then swirls it aroungd the inside of the empty can and then uses what little is inside the can till its all gone..Works real well little mess..
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Martyman on September 12, 2013, 03:53:59 AM
As I believe inletting black is the devil, I use a carpenters pencil as inletting black. Works great and is WAY less messy.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: SteveMKentucky on September 13, 2013, 04:32:27 AM
I use a carbide lamp.  It makes a nice dark black soot.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: Hank*in*WV on September 14, 2013, 12:41:13 AM
Taylor, thanks for the WD40 trick. I'll have to give that a try.

SteveMKentucky , would that be a 60s era A65 I'm looking at in your avatar?
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: TNVolunteerEngineer on September 17, 2013, 03:11:10 PM
I'm surprised that no one mentioned using a solder flux brush as an applicator. You know, the type that has a metal tube for a handle and has a stiff brush on the end.  I use mine to apply the blue and then use it to redistribute it once contact has been made.  I use both the black and blue stuff that Brownell's sells.  Right now I'm using blue.  A tube will last for about 30 jobs.
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: moleeyes36 on September 17, 2013, 06:43:50 PM
I just did the final inletting of the butt plate on my current project and I used the felt tip dry erase marker suggestion.  For the final inletting of a piece, I'm now a dry erase felt tip pen convert.  The lipstick suggestion was good but I'd never explain to my wife of all these years how I got lipstick all over my clothes.

I'll probably continue to use Jerrow's inletting black for some jobs.  I got some good tips here on how to apply it and how much to use.  I was definitely using too much and when I do I'm capable of getting it on the ceiling.

Mole Eyes
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: R.W.D. on September 18, 2013, 05:03:35 AM
I'm gonna try the dry erase marker. Never thought of that before. I've used lipstick, boot polish, Vaseline, red grease...etc. Just about everything that would leave a mark. Seems that no matter what I end up with it everywhere. Inletting black works for me as well as anything. I'm sure gonna try that dry erase maker though.

Ross
Title: Re: Inletting black
Post by: rwalt on September 19, 2013, 04:10:22 AM
I use chalk for a chalk line( the powdered stuff ) mixed with WD40. Can make it as thick or thin as you want. I've used the same batch months later, when it dry's  just add a drop or two of WD 40 and mix. The red shows up well on maple. Great for these old eyes.