AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Hivernant1962 on September 17, 2013, 05:29:20 PM
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Hi all, This is my first post on these forums. I have built a few rifles (Mostly from Golden Age Arms and TotW kits), iron mounted southern mountain and hawkens usually. I am looking for good info/tutorials on doing the relief carving as my next project is a Jim Chambers Isaac Haines. I would like to add some carving to this rifle. Thanks for any help.
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www.marymaycarving.com online school
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Thanks, I'll check it out.
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There are a number of tutorials on this ALR site: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23123.0
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Your first step is learning to draw, and to draw reasonably correct designs and styles. The rest can be almost fun.
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Sugar Maple, thank you very much, that is a good clear tutorial.
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Your first step is learning to draw, and to draw reasonably correct designs and styles. The rest can be almost fun.
Excellent suggestion, LRB.
Keep in mind that most American rifle carving is quite shallow, so you really don't have 'extra wood' on your stock before you carve it.
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Another topic that discusses relief carving. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=27750.0
So many different ways to do a task; read them all and decide what works for you.
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http://www.lulu.com/shop/david-price/david-price-carving-tutorial/paperback/product-5180149.html (http://www.lulu.com/shop/david-price/david-price-carving-tutorial/paperback/product-5180149.html)
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I still make my carving too high. Fortunately, the region of VA that I favor recreating, has unusually deep/high carving. ;D You really do need a very dense piece of wood, most likely sugar maple, to be able to do proper carving. I use mostly red maple as that is what is commonly available in the south. That might explain part of my problem. ;)
As to resources, I have two recommendations. The first is a set of articles that John Bivins wrote on the subject for Rifle Magazine. John taught most of the best gun makers around these days. You can find all his articles reproduced in a book called Gunsmithing Tips and Projects. Mine is a large green paperback book. Amazon has a second edition; http://www.amazon.com/Gunsmithing-Tips-Projects-Second-Anthology/dp/187935683X (http://www.amazon.com/Gunsmithing-Tips-Projects-Second-Anthology/dp/187935683X) The other resource is a DVD that Wallace Gusler made with Jim Wright of American Pioneer Video; http://www.americanpioneervideo.com/ (http://www.americanpioneervideo.com/) Contact Jim for a copy.
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Thanks for all the replies, looking forward to learning a bunch here.
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Hello, You didnt mention where you were from? you may have some classes in your area for carving check the sites. they are great and so are the other students in class! you all learn together! Chubby
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Chubby, I'm from Delaware, Ohio. Quite a few m/l guys around here.
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The book Mark Elliott recommended is a most excellent book. Bivins covers carving, silver wire inlay, finish, and more. Well worth having.
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Lots of different classes and such at the Log Cabin Shop in Lodi Ohio, less than 2 hours up the road from you. When you find one you are interested in apply early because they fill up fast.
BillP
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If this is your first carving and you are doing it on a quality "kit" such as the Chamber Isaac Haines take a course and study the originals as much as possible.
Don't get too creative with the carving. Keep it simple and maybe best to find an original example and do your best to emulate it. I recently finished I think a fairly decent rifle. I was my first attempt at carving though, and I thought that my carving was the weakest part of the rifle. I tried to "do my own thing" and thought the results would have been better if I had just did my best to copy an appropriate original (and leave the creativity until I had more experience).
Best regards,
John
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I suggest you make up a quaker butt stock (piece of same type wood your gun is made from) but just the left side of the butt stock. Draw up what you intend to carve on your finished rifle and submit it to this board for suggestions or corrections. Then start carving, maybe several times on the practice carvings before applying it to your finished rifle. During the practice you will learn what you have that works and what you need to obtain. Don't work with the wrong tools, stop and get the right ones. You will be surprised how fast your skill will come together with tools that work for you. I note you said you are building a Chambers Isaac Haines. Haines carving design is among the very best but it definitely is tougher than many to accomplish.
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To amplify what Jerry said, Issac Haines was a true master. His work always had perfect, crisp lines, and immaculate carving. His guns are the only originals I have seen that match contemporary longrifles in fit and finish. Even though you are buying a kit with a precarved stock, a lot of wood still needs to come off that stock and as you remove it, you need to maintain the crisp lines. An understanding of architecture and technique is imperative to reproduce a proper Issac Haines. Make sure you study his original guns, photos or in person, and get a good book or two on building longrifles. I suggest you at least have Peter Alexander's book, Gunsmith of Grenville County. I think he does a good job of explaining proper architecture and how to achieve it. The lock panels back is the hardest to get right. That is where a Quaker stock can come in handy. You practice shaping the lock panels and butt stock before you start your carving. This is what they do in most of the carving classes these days.
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As my friend Long John has said: Learn all the carving techniques, for you'll use a little of each technique on a gun.
Also start simple, and you will gain confidence with every project. I always do a practice piece before starting a project. It awakens the muscle memory and forces you to find all your tools. ;)
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Sugar Maple, thank you very much, that is a good clear tutorial.
Jus call'im Shooga! lol!
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Thanks for all the responses folks. No carving classes listed at Lodi on their site. I've an old stock blank that's got some bad checking on the butt end (if I cut it down to build a rifle it would have a 11 inch l.o.p.) Going to use it for carving practice wood. I'm not able to find many Haines pictures (originals , that is), anybody know where to find some? There's a few in Recreating the American Longrifle. So for now I'm wearing out pencils and paper practicing drawing. If I were putting stick figures on it I would be set. ;D Troy
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A Hawken flint I built 11 years ago. not the best pic, but I like the color. (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi902.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac227%2FTroy_Golden%2Fflinter_zpsef76572b.jpg&hash=f0b5671a590ef7ad7cbf4c23584e7815685b137b) (http://s902.photobucket.com/user/Troy_Golden/media/flinter_zpsef76572b.jpg.html)
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I'm not able to find many Haines pictures (originals , that is), anybody know where to find some? There's a few in Recreating the American Longrifle.
There are some decent black and white images of Haines’ work in our beloved RCA. They are not closeups, and they are just straight-on shots (so they don't show the depth of carving, etc.). But they are available:
Shumway, George. Rifles of Colonial America, Vol 1. George Shumway Publisher. p 326-343.
If you don't have access to it, you may want to see about borrowing it through interlibrary loan. A lot of local libraries are willing to borrow it for you.
Nice Hawken!
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I'm going to hunt a copy up. Found an old feller near me that's made some nice Lancaster guns. He's going to mentor me thru the carving of this rifle. Still drawing... :)
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Hivernant,
Be sure to see the photo of a quaker stock that Jerry V Lape posted today in the "Scared to start cutting" thread. The image he posted is of a practice piece with Isaac Haines cheek piece and carving. If you had any confusion about what Jerry meant by a "quaker stock" in his post above, that photo should clear it up. Excellent photo.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=27991.15
Jerry V Lape Re: Scared to start cutting
« Reply #25 on: Today at 08:44:11 PM »
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Good photo, gonna work one or two up.
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Here is a link to a Powerpoint presentation that Gary Brumfield put together to demonstrate his technique. It is a Virginia rifle of a particular school, but the techniques depicted are adaptable to others:
http://www.flintriflesmith.com/images/relief.carving.for.web2.ppt
Larry Luck
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Thanks Larry