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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: okawbow on February 26, 2014, 02:44:48 AM

Title: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on February 26, 2014, 02:44:48 AM
This is my first try at hand inletting a full stock swamped barrel. I bought the walnut stock bland from Dunlap wood crafts. It's a great piece of wood, and the straight grain made inletting a breeze. The 48", 54 cal. rifled barrel was custom made by Charles Burton. It is exceptional, and seems perfectly made.

I chose to leave the breech plug in while I inlet the barrel. The whole process took about 6 hours of dedicated work, and came out as well as I could hope for.

I started by clamping the barrel in place and carefully scribing a line for the width. I removed the barrel and using a 5/8" gouge, cut a hollow out so the barrel set into the stock almost to the side flats. I then clamped the 1/8" x 1/2"  steel side rails in place, against the barrel,  and screwed them down. I used a small Japanese saw with no set in the teeth, to cut slots 1/2 the depth of the flats. I chiseled the wood down to the depth of the saw cuts. I then cut a flat the depth of the finished barrel inlet, and the width of the flat, in the center of the channel. I used a depth gauge set at 1/2 the barrel width, measured every few inches to check progress, as I cut the flat. When the depth was close for the whole channel, I used a gouge to carefully cut the 45 degree angles connecting the side and bottom flats. I then began to inlet the tang and rear or the barrel. I made a steel scraper and used it to smooth the channel as I set the barrel to it's final depth. Lipstick on the barrel helped show the high spots as I scraped them into a half octagon. I found it as easy to come close to the octagon shape, as it would be to simply cut a 1/2 round channel. After the side rails were removed; the channel was nice and tight, and looked right to me. A very satisfying experience.

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P2250487 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20524843@N03/12781176284/) by okawbow (http://www.flickr.com/people/20524843@N03/), on Flickr

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P2250485 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20524843@N03/12780675925/) by okawbow (http://www.flickr.com/people/20524843@N03/), on Flickr

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P2250486 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20524843@N03/12781129534/) by okawbow (http://www.flickr.com/people/20524843@N03/), on Flickr

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P2250488 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20524843@N03/12781144054/) by okawbow (http://www.flickr.com/people/20524843@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: oldfox on February 26, 2014, 03:17:28 AM
A very nice looking inlet... Good job!
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Acer Saccharum on February 26, 2014, 03:58:45 AM
Good work. That takes a lot of time and patience.

I've hand inlet a number of barrels, but once I discovered folks that will do it for me, uh-uh, never again.
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: razor62 on February 26, 2014, 04:02:48 AM
Well, ...Not only did you make that look simple but you managed to make it sound simple too.
Your description and photos make the process easy to understand.
This one's going into the reference file.
Thank You!!!
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Acer Saccharum on February 26, 2014, 04:06:14 AM
Important to note that the screw holes in the bar are well outside the finished stock.
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Mark Elliott on February 26, 2014, 05:09:19 AM
As a person who always does it that way,  I have a few tips.

1.  Use some tape to mark the average side wall depth on the saw you use to cut in the side wall,  and cut no deeper than that anywhere.   By the way,  a shortened dovetail saw works best here as dovetail saws are sharpened rip, which is what you want for this cut.   Remove the set from the guide side of the saw.  You still want a set on the opposite side of the guide.

2.  Be careful chiseling out the wood inside the sidewalls such that you cut completely through to the sidewall and not tear out a little wood below your saw cut.  If you don't understand what I am getting at here,  the first time you do it, you will.  Of course, you don't want to gouge out a part of your side wall either.   Just be careful with the chisel and make sure it is sharp.   If you mess this up, don't worry too much.   It just means you will be missing some wood under the oblique flats in the middle of the barrel channel which really shouldn't cause a functional problem.

3. Take a large flat chisel and make sure the sidewalls are trimmed square with the top of the stock BEFORE you remove the barrel guides.   That way you can be sure the barrel will drop in the inlet without hanging anywhere.   This will save a LOT of time picking at the tight spots that can be hard to find.

4.  Two 3/4" gunstocking planes, one reshaped to an octagon profile will greatly speed removing wood in a plane.  A gunstocking plane looks like a moulding plane but has parallel shoulders on either side of the blade.   The shoulders are tapered in on a regular moulding plane.   Cut with the grain.

5.  You only need the inlet tight at the breech and muzzle so as to firmly hold the barrel in position in the stock.   Don't obsess about the channel in the middle.   Close is fine.     
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Mark Elliott on February 26, 2014, 05:18:22 AM
By the way,  the hard part isn't inletting the barrel,  it is drilling the ramrod hole where it is supposed to be.     
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Curtis on February 26, 2014, 05:42:16 AM
Well done okabow!  What a sense of accomplishment that must have given you.  Looks like you did a great job.

Curtis
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: David Rase on February 26, 2014, 06:04:18 AM
I must say, nice job.  Like Acer, I hand inlet about 10 barrels before I started using machine inlet barrels.  The first couple were a learning experience.  I enjoyed the challenge.  The next few were "fun" as I was able to apply lessons learned from the first couple of inlets.  After that, barrel inletting became pure drudgery.  I never could do one in six hours.  I commend your expedience.  I am sure you will fly right through the ramrod experience.  We will stay tuned.
David
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Sawatis on February 26, 2014, 07:40:57 PM
As a person who always does it that way,  I have a few tips.

  By the way,  a shortened dovetail saw works best here as dovetail saws are sharpened rip, which is what you want for this cut.   Remove the set from the guide side of the saw.  You still want a set on the opposite side of the guide.

I'm with you MArk...thats how I've done it for a while...I took an old (and cheap) "Gent's Saw" shortened it to about 6 inches to allow for changing angles in the taper and flare better and ground the crosscut teeth clean off (the blade was good steel).  Then I re cut and aggressive rip tooth profile on it with no set at all...that way I could cut along the guides on either side without having to change the direction I'm working. I also too good block plane blade and put slabs on it to use as a paring chisel down against the guides to shave the high spots of the side walls...of course the edge is saving sharp.  Found this to be very efficient...for me at least ;)
John
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on February 26, 2014, 08:16:45 PM
I agree - nice barrel inlet.  Now with that experience under your belt, do one in a hard piece of curly maple.  Set aside at least eight hours for that one.  At least that's how long it takes me.  But yours does look good!
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: t.caster on February 26, 2014, 08:43:25 PM
Here's another tip: if you have a very pronounced flair at the muzzle end, I cut some saw kerfs on the outside edge of the guide rails on that end, so they bend easier to follow the contour....then screw them down.
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on February 26, 2014, 09:37:36 PM
Thanks for the tips and good words. I've built a few rifles before, but always machined the barrel channel and ramrod groove and hole. This rifle is a special build of something that my GGG Grandfather from York Co. Pa might have had or at least handled in the early 1770's. It will be based on a longrifle attributed to George Shreyer. I've found, from making many violins, that the ones meaning the most to me where built entirely by hand, using traditional methods as much as possible.

Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Sawatis on February 26, 2014, 10:00:24 PM
Here's another tip: if you have a very pronounced flair at the muzzle end, I cut some saw kerfs on the outside edge of the guide rails on that end, so they bend easier to follow the contour....then screw them down.
Hmm sounds like a great idea, but how tho the fingers stay in place when you remove the barrel...do they just stay bent or spring back?
John
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on February 27, 2014, 01:01:08 AM
My first hand-done ramrod groove. Clamped guides and sawed down 5/16", then chiseled out. Hand scraped the rest of the groove with the tool shown. Came out nice and slick.

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3788%2F12801710464_8cf1986ffe_o.jpg&hash=a97dd875576dc40f5c81d55c1a4995951a1bcf17) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20524843@N03/12801710464/)
P2260490 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20524843@N03/12801710464/) by okawbow (http://www.flickr.com/people/20524843@N03/), on Flickr


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P2260491 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20524843@N03/12801311415/) by okawbow (http://www.flickr.com/people/20524843@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Mark Elliott on February 27, 2014, 01:42:57 AM
Well isn't that a cleaver scraper.   Why did I never think of that?  ???
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: David Rase on February 27, 2014, 02:28:34 AM
Well isn't that a cleaver scraper.   Why did I never think of that?  ???
Cleaver or clever?  ;D Just busting your chops Mark.
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Mark Elliott on February 27, 2014, 03:08:29 AM
It's not my fault.  Spell Check is supposed to fix that. ;)
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on February 27, 2014, 03:25:20 AM
Mostly following the "Gunsmith of Grenville Co." instructions. That's where the scraper is pictured.

Made a ramrod drill from a 52" piece of 3/8" rod, by sawing and filing a spade type point on it. Took about 3 hours to drill the ramrod hole, but  looks like it finished within 1/16" of center, and about 1/16" low. Neither should cause any problem with the lock or height at the breech. Oh what a relief it is!


Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: kaintuck on February 27, 2014, 02:55:28 PM
Burton barrel?.....them things will ONLY shoot one hole groups at 50yds, and opens up to 1" at a hundred..... :D
I always have one on order from him.....annual money! You WILL love the accuracy.....and your wood is doing it justice.....but I wonder....at the tang end, looks as if you cut a shelf....do you still have enuff wood for the slight radius upsweep on the lock plate side?
Marc
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on February 27, 2014, 05:49:45 PM
If you mean the radius at the breach end of the barrel, that sweeps up from the barrel flat; yes, there is wood left for that.
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: jamesthomas on February 27, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
Burton barrel?.....them things will ONLY shoot one hole groups at 50yds, and opens up to 1" at a hundred..... :D
I always have one on order from him.....annual money! You WILL love the accuracy.....and your wood is doing it justice.....but I wonder....at the tang end, looks as if you cut a shelf....do you still have enuff wood for the slight radius upsweep on the lock plate side?
Marc


 Man, with that 48" inch barrel he is already half way to the target!, Btw, okawbow what are the stats on that barrel? what kind of swamp, and the weight?  from here it looks like a heavy chunk of metal.
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: t.caster on February 27, 2014, 08:40:15 PM
Sawatis....the guides spring back straight afterwards. I think I only cut in about halfway. If you cut in too far they might retain some curve though.
I might add, my guides are made from 3/8" x 1/2" CRS. With the 3/8" thickness you can countersink the screw heads so you are not ripping your knuckes all the time. And with the 1/2" width put the screwholes toward the outside so you don't find thread marks on the side of your stock when you get down to the finishing the forend...I have seen it happen in our (former) Guild!
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on February 27, 2014, 10:10:09 PM

Quote

 Man, with that 48" inch barrel he is already half way to the target!, Btw, okawbow what are the stats on that barrel? what kind of swamp, and the weight?  from here it looks like a heavy chunk of metal.

The barrel is 1 1/16" at the breech, tapering to 7/8", and flaring to 15/16" at the muzzle. It is 54 cal. round bottom rifled, 1 turn in 70". It weighs 6#9oz.
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Sawatis on February 27, 2014, 10:48:44 PM
Sawatis....the guides spring back straight afterwards. I think I only cut in about halfway. If you cut in too far they might retain some curve though.
I might add, my guides are made from 3/8" x 1/2" CRS. With the 3/8" thickness you can countersink the screw heads so you are not ripping your knuckes all the time. And with the 1/2" width put the screwholes toward the outside so you don't find thread marks on the side of your stock when you get down to the finishing the forend...I have seen it happen in our (former) Guild!
Yup, made mine nice and wide for that reason too. and yea...my rails drew blood the first time I used them...before I was enlightened and countersunk the heads...think thats called learning by trial and bloodshed! :P So I imagine you set in the kerfs in the typical areas where the Taper and flare changes occur? or did you set them in along the whole length?
John
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on July 10, 2014, 01:48:44 AM
I haven't had a lot of time to work on my new rifle for a while, but I have got the stock shaped, the buttplate, lock, trigger, and sideplate inletted. I've roughed out the carving, and am getting ready to inlet the ramrod pipes. I made the pipe set today, using the Gunsmith of Grenville co. book as a guide. More pictures in a couple days, but here are the ramrod pipes.

Any words of wisdom on doing the job right is appreciated. As I said earlier; this rifle is inspired by an early, possibly colonial era rifle attributed to George Shreyer.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3915/14429079598_8dc2815da9_s.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nZ3NEs)photo (1) (https://flic.kr/p/nZ3NEs) by okawbow (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: kaintuck on July 10, 2014, 01:56:03 PM
 ;Dodging good....keep up the work! You will have a fine rifle when done...
Marc
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: Curtis on July 10, 2014, 05:14:08 PM
"Any words of wisdom on doing the job right is appreciated."

Okabow, if you are referring to the thimble inlets, just go straight down and go slow on the rear thimble and you will do fine.

Curtis
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel (plus brass work)
Post by: okawbow on July 13, 2014, 02:29:31 AM
Today I made a one piece nose cap for the rifle. First time for me. Not perfect, but very much like the original.

I made a form out of osage orange wood. Used .032 brass, and annealed it often. Was easier than I expected. Took about 3 hours to make and fit.

Next project: patchbox.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3926/14452309728_57f25becdb_s.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/o26SaW)photo (43) (https://flic.kr/p/o26SaW) by okawbow (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

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Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on July 13, 2014, 11:03:34 PM
Filed my patchbox finial as close to the original as possible. Spent about 5 hours or so getting it shaped and inlet.

I will need to install a catch. anyone know what might be right for a colonial Shreyer?

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5528/14459783209_13d4795010_s.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/o2LaM4)photo (44) (https://flic.kr/p/o2LaM4) by okawbow (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/14623431306_41d140e99f_s.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ohdUDY)photo (45) (https://flic.kr/p/ohdUDY) by okawbow (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: galamb on July 13, 2014, 11:40:32 PM
In the Gunsmith of Grenville County, George Schreyer's patchbox release system is shown in great detail.

He used a pushrod that was activated on the top (comb line) of the buttplate, that was fastened into the the latch spring (rather than simply pushing it).

The latch spring was peened into place on the butt plate as well and then groves were cut in the butt stock to allow the whole shebang to be fastened as one unit (so push rod and latch were integral to the butt plate itself).

Really difficult to explain but don't want to scan and post the pic from book (for copyright reasons).

(if you can beg/borrow a copy of the book it can be found on page 284 of the "reprinted" edition)

Personally, I would go with the patchbox release kit that MBS sells for under 10 bucks - unless someone pulled your butt plate you could never tell it wasn't "the way George did it" :)
Title: Re: Hand inletting a swamped 48" barrel
Post by: okawbow on July 14, 2014, 12:21:56 AM
Thanks, Graham, I have a copy of the book. I guess I missed the patchbox release some how.

I'm still waiting on a triggerguard from Mr. Goerhring, sights to make and install, and the rifle will be complete. There will be lots of hours left smoothing, polishing, and finishing.

It's a LONG rifle

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5567/14460466799_395d0967e8_s.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/o2PEZ6)photo (46) (https://flic.kr/p/o2PEZ6) by okawbow (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr